The Transaction

Udi Ledergor is the Chief Evangelist at Gong and is firmly amongst the upper echelon of the, as yet to be founded, B2B marketing leader hall of fame, having led outstanding teams as both a Vice President of Marketing and Chief Marketing Officer at five B2B SaaS companies for over two decades. Alongside steadfast co-hosts Craig Rosenberg and Matt Amundson, Udi shares how he has crafted one of the top SaaS brands without losing its exceedingly human touch, how Gong thinks about the content they create as part of their marketing strategy, and to use AI to raise your bar for creative thinking by filtering out the obvious crap.Plus, Udi unpacks the three critical marketing leadership lessons he learned the hard way when a mistake in an email marketing campaign almost spiraled into a massive issue for one of the premier B2B SaaS brands in Silicon Valley today.   Also, Craig admits to claims he confused someone on a call, Matt waxes poetic about a B2B SaaS company he doesn’t work for, and Producer Sam revels in an ever-elusive mention of the show notes. Critical TakeawaysWhen a marketing mistake goes public, marketing leaders need to act decisively within hours, not days, and own it personally. A swift action paired with a personal response can de-escalate most complicated situations and help to quell even irate customers. By quickly taking personal accountability for the issue, you can turn a brand crisis into a trust-building moment.Teams should treat complaints as a signal, not the sample size. If a dozen people took the time to complain, many more probably felt the same way and stayed quiet. That is a strong operating principle for brand, product, and customer comms teams: they should respond to the unseen audience, not just the visible inbox.A key to building Gong’s human-feeling brand was deliberately connecting "trusted thought leader" with "relaxed, friendly person who wants to help you out" during an early brand workshop. Most B2B brands default to authoritative-plus-stuffy; product marketers and brand teams should explicitly codify an approachable, human counterweight in their brand guidelines.Use AI suggestions to find and filter out the obvious crap that everyone else would do in their marketing strategy. LLMs are a synthesis of (pretty much) everything on the internet, which means they’re great at telling you about what’s already out there. The next time you’re coming up with ideas for a marketing campaign, ask your LLM of choice for its recommendations and use those as a guide for what not to do.Rather than going fully with either gated or ungated content, using them in tandem can increase visibility and conversions. When sharing ungated content publicly, link to relevant gated assets and resources from within the ungated piece of content. This way, you get the visibility benefits of ungated content while getting your gated assets in front of a larger target audience.Chapters00:00 - Episode Preview00:56 - Craig Flounders While Filibustering to Find an Excuse For His Profile Photo Fiasco03:16 - Introducing Udi Ledergor, Chief Evangelist at Gong05:46 - 3 Critical Marketing Lessons Learned from an Email Campaign that Almost Ruined a Massive B2B SaaS Brand17:02 - How Gong Intentionally Built an Authentic, Sincere, & Human Brand for A B2B SaaS Startup22:06 - Reimagining B2B Marketing Events To Optimize for Guest Experience28:48 - Using AI as a Quality Filter for Marketing Ideas33:36 - The Two Ways to Use AI in Your Work35:19 - Where Gong Lands in the Gated-versus-Ungated Content Debate45:26 - The Basics of Email Marketing That Still Work in B2B47:45 - The Bait & Switch Twitter Play for Boosting Web Traffic For Startups51:31 - How Gong Develops its Content Marketing and Distribution Strategy TogetherJoin our Newsletter to never miss an episode & get bonus content: https://thetransaction.substack.com/Epic Quotes“We're sometimes over-reliant on all this automation crap. We like that it saves our team work, but we don't realize what we're giving up in return.” - Udi Ledergor“The worst thing that can happen to you is not that some people hate what you're doing. The worst thing that can happen to you is indifference.” -  Udi LedergorConnect with UdiLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/udiledergor/ Gong’s Website: https://www.gong.io/ Udi’s Book: https://a.co/d/0Cix9Ll Udi’s Website: https://www.udiledergor.com/ ShoutoutsRuby James: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rubyjameslinkedin/ Chris Orlob: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisorlob/ Chris’ Episode: https://open.substack.com/pub/thetransaction/p/solving-the-go-to-market-skills-crisisMaria Pergolino: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mariapergolino/ Jon Miller: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonmiller2/ Jon’s Episode: https://open.substack.com/pub/thetransaction/p/building-trust-and-reputation-inBrent Adamson: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brentadamson/ Brent’s Episode: https://open.substack.com/pub/thetransaction/p/rebuilding-b2b-customers-confidenceKyle Lacy: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kylelacy/ Top Swear Words - Gong: https://www.gong.io/blog/how-cursing-impacts-sales Alec Paul: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alecjpaul/ Alec’s Episode: https://open.substack.com/pub/thetransaction/p/becoming-a-linkedin-master-with-alec Danny Hutto: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dannyhutto/ Love the show? 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We’ve got the perfect guest to help you understand how your brand can stand out and provide a uniquely incredible experience for customers in the AI era.Stacey Epstein is the CEO of Structured, the only AI-native channel marketing platform purpose-built for complex partner ecosystems. She is also the Host of AI’ve Got Questions, a casual, candid podcast for marketers trying to make sense of the fast-moving world of AI. Stacey joins co-hosts Matt Amundson and Craig Rosenberg to discuss why your positioning framework needs to be at the core of every marketing campaign, how hiring for taste drives differentiation, and how to inject the voice of your customers into your brand.Plus, Stacey shares how to maximize the impact of your CEO or Founder throughout your marketing.Also, Craig talks about the miracle of birth, Matt mixes up the abbreviations of an African country, and Producer Sam expounds on the etymology of the word “czar”. Critical TakeawaysBefore you start executing any marketing tactics, you need to develop a strong positioning framework that clearly articulates what your company does, why it matters, who the buyer is, and what makes you different. Way too many B2B companies are still doing "random acts of marketing" where every campaign differs from the website messaging, creating inconsistent brand experiences that confuse buyers and dilute impact.As AI handles more aspects of content creation, campaign distribution, and administrative tasks, marketing teams should prioritize hiring "tastemakers" who demonstrate exceptional judgment in evaluating strategic creative decisions. The ability to curate, refine, and elevate work, whether human-made or AI-generated, matters more than the ability to execute tactical tasks manually.Treat your S-1 as the foundation for all Go-To-Market activities. It should be the basis of your positioning, informing everything from why you exist, what your product does, points of competitive differentiation, and your future visionOrganizations need a centralized AI leader, whether in marketing ops, revenue ops, or IT, to coordinate AI initiatives across functions and prevent teams from burying themselves in disjointed AI projects. This role ensures strategic alignment, prevents redundant tool purchases, and helps teams focus AI adoption on high-impact use cases rather than experimenting randomly.Chapters00:00 - Episode Preview00:42 - Craig’s Story of Endings and New Beginnings02:46 - Introducing Stacey Epstein, CEO of Structured07:16 - Accidentally Sending an Embarrassing Email to Every Co-worker in an Entire Region15:34 - Why Positioning is Foundational to Your Brand and Storytelling21:29 -  How to Get Better Input on Marketing from Founders & CEOs31:58 - What Stacey's Learned about AI From Hosting her Podcast34:54 - Why You Need to Hire “Taste Makers” in an AI-first world41:50 - A Brief Aside on the Etymology of Czar/Tsar43:35 - Why Companies are Hiring GTM Engineers & The Impact They're Having45:58 - How to Lead AI Implementation in Your CompanyJoin our Newsletter to never miss an episode & get bonus content: https://thetransaction.substack.com/Epic Quotes“ Who owns AI in the company?” - Stacey Epstein“ I love coming back to use cases, because use cases come back to the benefit for the company. So instead of telling me what the product does, tell me how that would be used.” - Stacey EpsteinConnect with StaceyLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/staceyepstein/ Magnetic GTM Website: https://www.magneticgtm.com/ Podcast: https://aivegotquestions.buzzsprout.com/ Structured Website: https://structured.ai/ ShoutoutsDavid Boskovic: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dboskovic/ David’s Episode: https://open.substack.com/pub/thetransaction/p/building-an-ai-first-go-to-marketLisa Cole: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lisacole01/ 

The landscape of go-to-market in the B2B SaaS world is shifting rapidly, but thankfully we’ve got just the person to help you get ahead and innovate.James Kaikis is the Founder of GTMshift, Co-Founder of SolutionExec, Co-Founder of AI Sales Studio, and Host of The GTMshift Interview Series. James joins Matt Amundson and Craig Rosenberg to unpack the evolving role of sales reps, how to use the GTM Innovator’s Framework to stay up on AI advances, and why B2B SaaS companies must refocus their GTM motions on their customers.Plus, James shares his top spots to eat in Chicago.Also, Craig calls Matt a technical buyer, Matt rates Craig’s follicular health, and Producer Sam forgets how math works. Critical TakeawaysTechnical buyers have done extensive research before ever talking to you and know their problems better than you do. Stop running rigid qualification frameworks like BANT or MEDDIC that waste their time asking questions they've already answered internally. Instead, get straight to demonstrating how your solution solves their specific problem with their actual data, positioning yourself as a consultant helping them buy rather than a salesperson trying to extract information.Sales reps must be able to demonstrate the product themselves for lower-complexity solutions, especially when selling to other sales or marketing professionals. If you're selling sales technology but can't give a demo because "that's what SEs do," you've already lost credibility with your buyer. Invest time learning your product deeply enough to have hands-on conversations, or accept that AI-proficient competitors will replace you.Shift your focus from new logos to customer expansion. B2B SaaS companies are now generating more net new revenue from existing customers than new logo acquisition for the first time. Every customer you close should have a clear expansion roadmap within the first 90 days, with multiple upsell opportunities identified before implementation completes.Vertical SaaS represents one of the few remaining competitive moats as horizontal solutions get commoditized overnight by AI. Sales reps must develop deep expertise in specific industries—understanding regulatory requirements, workflow nuances, and sector-specific language that generic reps cannot replicate. For example, if you're selling into pharmaceutical, financial services, or manufacturing, you need to speak their language authentically or technical buyers will immediately dismiss you as lacking credibility.The traditional AE role that handled prospecting, discovery, demoing, forecasting, product knowledge, and closing is fundamentally broken because it asks too much of one person. Your role must narrow to being a customer-centric problem solver who builds trust and delivers value, while AI handles pipeline generation and SEs handle technical depth. Sales professionals who cannot adapt to this narrower, more specialized role will be replaced by solutions engineers who understand the product deeply and can build trust through hands-on demonstrations rather than sales techniques.Chapters00:00 - Episode Preview00:50 - Checking in on Craig’s Follicular Growth, Grooming & Glasses03:12 - Introducing James Kaikis, Founder of GTMshift09:06 - The Life-changing Impact AI Innovation Had on James23:17 - B2B SaaS has Forgotten about the Customer & Their Experience31:18 -  The Changing Role of Sales Reps & Why Your Next Account Exec Should be a Solutions Engineer41:02 - How the Next Generation of Sales Reps will be Trained & Interact with AI50:11 - The Opportunity for Experiential Selling that AI Makes Feasible59:04 - Quick Review of the Chicago Cuisine SceneJoin our Newsletter to never miss an episode & get bonus content: https://thetransaction.substack.com/Epic Quotes“We have lost sight in B2B SaaS of who matters.” - James Kaikis“Trust and value are the ultimate currency and this next wave of B2B SaaS.” - James KaikisConnect with JamesLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameskaikis/ GTMShift Website: https://gtmshift.com/ AI Sales Studio Website: SolutionExec Website: https://solutionexec.com/ The GTM Shift Interview Series: https://gtmshift.com/the-gtmshift Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jkaikis ShoutoutsDoug Landis: https://www.linkedin.com/in/douglandis/ Doug’s Episode: https://open.substack.com/pub/thetransaction/p/overcoming-outbound-challenges-with Antonio Garcia: https://www.linkedin.com/in/antonio-garcia-18b912220/ Mark Gustaferro: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mark-gustaferro-3894aa1a5/ David Boskovic: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dboskovic/ David’s Episode: https://thetransaction.substack.com/p/building-an-ai-first-go-to-market MIT Study on AI Adoption: https://mitsloan.mit.edu/ideas-made-to-matter/productivity-paradox-ai-adoption-manufacturing-firms Craig’s Episode on GTM Shift: https://gtmshift.com/the-gtmshift/everything-s-back-on-the-table-why-ai-is-revolutionizing-gtm-with-craig-rosenberg Jeff Margolese’s Episode on GTM Shift: https://gtmshift.com/the-gtmshift/the-solution-exec-guide-to-navigating-the-great-ai-shift-with-jeff-margolese Dave Brock: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davebrock/ Dave’s Episode: https://open.substack.com/pub/thetransaction/p/really-knowing-your-customer-with?utm_campaign=post-expanded-share&utm_medium=web Trivoli Tavern: https://www.trivolitavern.com/trivoli Love the show? 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Surprise: Doing ‘more with less’, doesn’t actually work in B2B marketing, and today’s guest has the data to show it.Omar Akhtar is the Founder and Principal Analyst of Benchmarker and the Director of Content at UserTesting. Omar joins co-hosts Matt Amundson & Craig Rosenberg to dive into the B2B marketing data from Benchmarker’s latest survey, why the most successful companies are spending more on brand than demand, and how events have emerged as one of the top growth channels in go-to-market.Plus, Omar digs into when to prioritize paid versus organic channels in your marketing mix.Also, Craig outlines the plans for his kid’s booze-fueled birthday party, Matt laughs at an inopportune moment, and Producer Sam says ‘raccoon’. Critical TakeawaysDoing more with less is dead. You can’t cut your way to growth. Marketing leaders need to choose between efficient growth or exponential growth and spend accordingly. The companies that are actually hitting or exceeding their targets are spending at least the same, if not more, on brand as they are on demand. The companies that are performing the worst are overspending on demand over brand marketing.When new account growth is the priority, marketing teams should lean into paid search and paid social even though they’re expensive, because these paid channels can deliver faster growth and can outperform organic channels for reach.Dinners and small events can be great, but you can easily ruin them by being overly pushy and sales-y. If someone is talking product before anyone’s had a drink, you need to nip that in the bud. Also, some consultants can be pitchy, so invite them selectively.SaaS marketers are great at deploying amazing new tactics; however, on the whole, they lack a strong foundation in the marketing basics. Before you learn about the next bleeding-edge tool, take a minute to brush up on the building blocks, like positioning, targeting, and messaging.Chapters00:00 - Episode Preview01:23 - Introducing Omar Akhtar, The Founder of Benchmarker03:54 - A Perilously Precipitous Sales Call06:01 - How Omar Moved From Rockstar to B2B Marketing Analyst12:26 - Craig’s Dog Crashes the Party in Multiple Ways13:32 - What Benchmarker’s Data has Revealed about Successful B2B Marketing Teams21:26 - Why the Best Marketing Teams are Spending More on Brand Marketing23:56 - Where Content Marketing Fits in the Modern B2B Marketing Mix30:34 - Events & Small Dinners are Converting Like Crazy, but Please Don’t Overdo Them37:24 - No Amount of Great Marketing Can Overcome a Crap Product, Have a Good Product & Execute the Basics of Marketing Well44:11 - What Makes Clay’s Marketing So Special50:21 - How Gong Survived the Latest SalesTech Revolution & is Now ThrivingJoin our Newsletter to never miss an episode & get bonus content: https://thetransaction.substack.com/Epic Quotes“ This idea that we used to have for a long time, where you have to do more with less doesn't hold true anymore, because you can't cut your way to growth anymore.” - Omar Akhtar“We’re really in a B2B SaaS recession.” - Omar AkhtarConnect with OmarLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/omarbilalakhtar/ Benchmarker Website: https://www.benchmarkerdata.com/ UserTesting Website: https://www.usertesting.com/ ShoutoutsAmy Holtzman: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aholtzman/ Amy’s Episode: https://open.substack.com/pub/thetransaction/p/crafting-an-exceptional-event-marketing?r=3iae7z&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web Udi Ledergor: https://www.linkedin.com/in/udiledergor/ Chris Orlob: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisorlob/ Chris’s Episode:  https://open.substack.com/pub/thetransaction/p/solving-the-go-to-market-skills-crisis?utm_campaign=post-expanded-share&utm_medium=web Jon Miller: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonmiller2/ Jon’s Episode: https://open.substack.com/pub/thetransaction/p/building-trust-and-reputation-in?utm_campaign=post-expanded-share&utm_medium=web Love the show? Give us a shoutout on LinkedIn and tell us what you loved!

For our first episode of the new year, we’re thrilled to welcome special guest Kathy Macchi,  the Executive Vice President, Innovation & Co-Founder at Inverta.Kathy joins co-hosts Craig Rosenberg & Matt Amundson to discuss where so many go-to-market leaders go wrong with their segmentation, why your message matters more than the channel you deliver it through, and how to design a successful mid-market marketing org amidst massive pressure for budget cuts.Also, Craig bemoans eating vegetables, Matt gives an update on Craig’s health, and some may have been kidnapped at Producer Sam’s house. Critical TakeawaysBefore chasing hyper-specifc and fancy AI tools, codify ICP, targeting, messaging, and what “good” outreach looks like. Then use AI to scale research and execution (with humans judging output), instead of hoping automation will invent strategy from scratch.If the account list is wrong, everything downstream gets harder (sales cycle, conversion, retention, even CSM load). Institutionalize segmentation by use case and continuously prune/refresh the target universe instead of debating tactics in the abstract.Stop obsessing over which channels you’re using and start focusing more on whether you have something worth saying to a specific buyer group. Then should ship that personalized, relevant message across every relevant channel as an integrated system, not as disconnected one-off campaigns.Chapters00:00 Harrowing Health Foods, Rave Recaps, & Tennis Talk08:30 Introducing Kathy Macchi, Co-founder at Inverta12:40 The Business Concerns Coming up In CMO Councils, Primarily AI & Budget Cuts18:43 Why Cultivating Good Taste Transcends AI Advancements & Solving The Problem Before Adding AI Tools30:27 AI's Impact on B2B Marketing Jobs and Economy32:37 Rethinking Marketing and Business Processes with AI34:06 The Role of Effective Targeting for Account-Based Marketing in the AI-era37:02 Effective Use of AI in Marketing42:13 Messaging + B2B Marketing Channel Strategies and Multi-Channel Marketing53:04 B2B Sales and Territory PlanningJoin our Newsletter to never miss an episode & get bonus content: https://thetransaction.substack.com/Epic Quotes“The who is everything” - Kathy Macchi“ We forgot that early pipeline, until you figure it out, costs money.  It costs money and you're going to fail.” - Craig RosenbergConnect with KathyLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kathy-macchi-aa148b/ Inverta Website: https://www.inverta.com/ ShoutoutsGeoffrey Moore: https://www.linkedin.com/in/geoffreyamoore/ Jason Lemkin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasonmlemkin/ Carlos AlcarazDavid Boskovic: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dboskovic/ Our Episode with David: https://open.substack.com/pub/thetransaction/p/building-an-ai-first-go-to-marketOmar Akhtar: https://www.linkedin.com/in/omarbilalakhtar/Love the show? Give us a shoutout on LinkedIn and tell us what you loved!