On the latest episode of Reckon True Stories, Deesha Philyaw and Kiese Laymon are joined by MacArthur Genius and National Book Award Winner Dr. Imani Perry to discuss genre, personal stories and the ethical commitment to those we write about, the utilization of craft to bring the reader close to the experience and the body, the body as political, Black women and silence, mobility, music, and mothering. 

They ask the question of what we owe of ourselves as writers — and particularly Black writers— to our audience, and they explore what it looks like to maintain boundaries, to self-preserve, and to rest. In Kiese’s words, he calls it learning “the art of not just no, but not now.” Kiese praises Dr. Perry on how she has never written the same kind of book twice, and in this episode, she talks about her inspirations, how she chooses what to write towards, and what questions she is consistently leaning into in her work.

Reading List: Authors, Stories, and Books Mentioned

• South to America (Imani Perry)
• Breathe: A Letter To My Sons (Imani Perry)
• Prophets of the Hood: Politics and Poetics in Hip Hop (Imani Perry)
• Looking for Lorraine: The Radiant and Radical Life of Lorraine Hansberry (Imani Perry)
• May We Forever Stand: A History of the Black National Anthem (Imani Perry)
• Percival Everett
• A Dangerously High Threshold for Pain (Imani Perry)
• Alice Walker
• Nikky Finney
• “She Changed Black Literature Forever. Then She Disappeared.” (Imani Perry, New York Times 2021)
• “‘Palmares’ Is An Example Of What Grows When Black Women Choose Silence” (Deesha Philyaw, Electric Literature 2021)
• Palmares (Gayl Jones)
• Robert Stepto
• Hazel Carby
• Zora Neale Hurston
• Katherine Dunham
• Moms Mabley
• 1000 Words (Jami Attenberg)
• Lessons for Survival: Mothering Against “The Apocalypse” (Emily Raboteau)
• How To Live Free In A Dangerous World: A Decolonial Memoir (Shayla Lawson)
• A Mercy (Toni Morrison)

Listening List:

• Nina Simone
• Miles Davis
• “Nobody’s Supposed To Be Here” (Deborah Cox)

More from Deesha Philyaw and Kiese Laymon: 

• The Secret Lives of Church Ladies (Deesha Philyaw)
• Heavy (Kiese Laymon)
• Long Division (Kiese Laymon)
• How to Slowly Kill Yourself and Others in America: Essays (Kiese Laymon)
• City Summer, Country Summer (Kiese Laymon & Alexis Franklin)
• Ursa Short Fiction podcast (Deesha Philyaw & Dawnie Walton)

Produced by Ursa Story Company in partnership with Reckon. 

Hosted by Deesha Philyaw & Kiese Laymon

Show Producers: Dawnie Walton & Mark Armstrong

Associate Producer: Marina Leigh

Episode Editor: Kelly Araja

Reckon Editor In Chief: R.L. Nave

Reckon Deputy Editor: Michelle Zenarosa

Audience Director: Katie Johnston

Creative Strategist: Abbey Crain

Sr. Social Producer: Sid Espinosa

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