Deesha Philyaw and Kiese Laymon dig into a classic essay by Toni Morrison, “The Work You Do, the Person You Are,” published in The New Yorker in May 2017. They talk about labor and self-identity — how our feelings of worth can become so closely tied to the work we do, in ways that can become unhealthy, both in the corporate world and in the art we create. 

Kiese Laymon: “Without labor and work, I don’t know who I am. And I think that’s terrifying.” 

Reading List: Authors, Stories, and Books Mentioned

• “The Work You Do, the Person You Are” Toni Morrison (The New Yorker, 2017)
• Daddy Was a Number Runner (Louise Meriwether, 1970)
• “On Writing and the Business of Writing” (Carmen Maria Machado, 2022)
• Playing in the Dark (Toni Morrison, 1992)
• "The Cask of Amontillado" (Edgar Allan Poe, 1846)

More from Deesha Philyaw and Kiese Laymon: 

• The Secret Lives of Church Ladies (Deesha Philyaw)
• Heavy (Kiese Laymon)
• Long Division (Kiese Laymon)
• How to Slowly Kill Yourself and Others in America: Essays (Kiese Laymon)
• City Summer, Country Summer (Kiese Laymon & Alexis Franklin)
• Ursa Short Fiction podcast (Deesha Philyaw & Dawnie Walton)

Produced by Ursa Story Company in partnership with Reckon. 

Hosted by Deesha Philyaw & Kiese Laymon

Show Producers: Dawnie Walton & Mark Armstrong

Associate Producer: Marina Leigh

Episode Editor: Kelly Araja

Reckon Editor In Chief: R.L. Nave

Reckon Deputy Editor: Michelle Zenarosa

Audience Director: Katie Johnston

Creative Strategist: Abbey Crain

Sr. Social Producer: Sid Espinosa

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