Influence Anyone

Behavioral scientist, fundraising strategist, and author of Neurogiving, Cherian Koshy, joins Howie Chan in this episode where they dive deep into how to influence people to give—and what behavioral science teaches us about generosity, identity, and contribution. Drawing from behavioral science, neuroscience, and decades of fundraising experience, Cherian reveals that generosity is hardwired into human behavior and may be the fastest path to trust, loyalty, and lasting behavior change. Together, they explore why people give, how identity shapes decision-making, and why organizations often fail when they try to convince people to give. You'll learn how nonprofits, businesses, leaders, and entrepreneurs can stop pushing and start creating environments where people naturally want to contribute. Whether you're building a brand, leading a team, raising funds, or simply trying to influence more effectively, this conversation offers a powerful reframe: influence begins when people feel seen in their highest and best form. Episode Breakdown: 00:00:00 From State Debate Champion to Influence Expert 00:08:24 Humans Are Hardwired for Generosity 00:14:50 The Biggest Fundraising Mistake Organizations Make 00:23:11 How Generosity Builds Better Businesses and Teams 00:29:38 Decision Architecture and the Emotions Surrounding Decision Making 00:34:18 Consumer Giving vs. Corporate Giving 00:42:18 The Neuroscience Behind the Joy of Giving 00:44:45 Donor Retention and Why Most Organizations Get It Wrong 00:55:00 Neuro-Linguistic Programming, Language and Ethical Influence 01:00:46 Be Generous First Experts Shouldn’t Have to Be Invisible If you’re an accomplished professional, executive, or expert who knows you have more to say, more to contribute, and wants to become known for your ideas in the AI era… I’m putting together a small executive intensive around influence, positioning, visibility, and authority. You can join the waitlist at: howiechan.com/waitlist What’s Your Influence Style? What do you do when you need someone to do something? This quiz will help you discover what is your most natural influence style, so you can use that strength more effectively (and know your blind spots). → https://www.influencestylequiz.com/ Join 700+ leaders who've already uncovered what their style is. Episode Resources: Check out the conversations mentioned in this episode at https://www.howiechan.com/podcast: TEDx Former Executive Producer Reveals: Most Ideas Fall Flat, Make Yours Irresistible with The Red Thread Framework with Tamsen Webster (episode 67) (https://www.howiechan.com/podcast/tamsenwebster) 400+ Behavioral Science Theories Decoded: an ABC Guide to Supercharge Your Marketing with Tom Bowden-Green and Luan Wise (episode 66) (https://www.howiechan.com/podcast/tomandluan) Godfather of Influence: The Persuasion Principle that Resulted in a $700,000 Gift & The "Bible of Online Marketing" with Robert Cialdini (episode 50) (https://www.howiechan.com/podcast/robertcialdini) From Our Guest: Website (https://www.cheriankoshy.com/) LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/cheriankoshy/) Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/cheriangkoshy/) Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/cheriankoshy) Neurogiving by Cherian Koshy (https://neurogivingbook.com/) — Produced by Ideablossoms (https://ideablossoms.com/)

Howie Chan interviews buyer psychology expert and “customer whisperer” Katelyn Bourgoin to unpack the hidden forces behind attention, influence, and why some people become impossible to ignore while others stay invisible. In this episode, Katelyn shares the painful story of shutting down her venture-backed startup, the lessons she learned from studying behavioral economics, and how understanding buyer psychology completely changed the trajectory of her career. They dive deep into the psychology of attention, why “jobs to be done” changed modern marketing, how envy secretly drives human behavior, and the difference between getting attention and earning true influence. You’ll also learn practical strategies for becoming “unignorable” in today’s AI-driven world, including how to build authority, borrow trust, create memorable positioning, and use storytelling ethically to influence people. Whether you’re an entrepreneur, creator, marketer, or leader trying to stand out in a noisy world, this conversation will change how you think about persuasion, branding, and human behavior. Episode Breakdown: 00:00:00 Why Katelyn Bourgoin Shut Down Her Startup 00:05:19 Rebuilding from Zero 00:12:09 The Customer Insight Mistake Founders Keep Making 00:16:38 How a Newsletter Accidentally Became a Business 00:21:45 “Jobs To Be Done” Explained Simply 00:27:11 The “Pratfall Effect” & Why Flaws Build Trust 00:29:19 How to Become Unignorable in the Age of AI 00:36:25 How to Borrow Trust and Authority Strategically 00:39:25 Sharing Your Wins Builds Influence 00:41:22 Envy, Mimetic Desire & Hidden Motivations 00:47:15 The Science of Attention and Persuasion 00:52:11 Fascination, Contrarian Ideas & Standing Out 01:02:33 Wallet Opening Words 01:06:31 Delivering on Your Promises to Build Influence Want to make influencing human behavior your company's superpower? Connect with me at howiechan.com/speaking and let's talk! The Behavioring Blueprint: A FREE, 7-day email course breaking down all the levers to influence human behavior to get people from a current behavior to a desired behavior. → http://howiechan.com/behavioring From Our Guest: Website (https://learnwhywebuy.com/) LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/katebour/) Newsletter (https://learnwhywebuy.com/) Read Katelyn’s blog about killing her startup (https://medium.com/@katelynbourgoin/i-killed-my-startup-and-then-some-crazy-shit-happened-6dfefa184652) Participate in Katelyn's Pre-selling with Pre-suasion email challenge (https://customercamp.co/pwp/) Get the book, Wallet-Opening Words (https://www.walletopeningwords.com/) — Produced by Ideablossoms (https://ideablossoms.com/)

In this solo episode, Howie Chan breaks down one of the biggest mistakes people make when trying to influence others: leading with data instead of emotion. He reveals why facts alone rarely change minds and how stories psychologically prime people to care, remember, and take action. Drawing from neuroscience, behavioral psychology, and persuasion research, Howie explains how emotion drives decision-making before logic ever enters the picture. He unpacks the hidden roles stories and data play in the brain and introduces a simple four-part framework to ethically influence decisions more effectively. You’ll learn why storytelling in marketing and communication works so powerfully, how dopamine and emotional memory shape attention, and why data is most persuasive only after emotional engagement has been established. Chapters: 00:00:00 Why Stories Outperform Statistics 00:02:14 What Storytelling Does to the Brain 00:04:39 The 4-Part Framework for Influence 00:06:41 The Psychology Behind Emotional Anchoring Check out my conversation with Matt Sucha: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Evkin9z6Z4w Turn Your Expertise Into Income (Without Becoming a Creator) Influence System Mastery is a 6-week cohort program with a private community designed to help you attract the right clients and opportunities 24/7—using brand and influence science. → https://www.influencesystemmastery.com Next Summer cohort runs June 5 - July 10, 2026

Brand strategist and author of Brand Desire, Kevin Perlmutter, joins Howie Chan to reveal why the strongest brands don’t just communicate value. They create emotional connection. Drawing from behavioral science, customer psychology, and years of brand strategy experience, Kevin explains how brands can move beyond corporate jargon and surface-level messaging to uncover the emotional motivations that truly drive human behavior. From “limbic sparks” and subconscious associations to brand messaging and customer experience design, this conversation breaks down how great brands become unforgettable. You’ll learn why emotional insight matters more than demographics, how subconscious associations influence decision-making, and why most B2B brands fail to connect with the people they’re trying to reach. Kevin also shares practical frameworks any business can use to create stronger customer relationships, more resonant messaging, and brand experiences people actually want to return to. Episode Breakdown: 00:00:00 The 3 Pillars of Brand Desire 00:09:21 “Limbic Sparks” in Brand Strategy 00:14:33 The Behavioral Science Discovery That Changed Kevin’s Career 00:16:44 The 86% Correlation Most Brands Ignore 00:24:36 AI & the Missing Emotional Connection 00:28:26 The Biggest Mistake B2B Brands Make 00:34:35 Fear-Based Marketing vs. Positive Emotional Connection 00:40:49 Brand Expression (Sonic Branding, Visual Identity & Brand Messaging) 00:44:27 Identifying Shared Emotional Motivation Between Stakeholders 00:46:13 Aligning Customer Experience With Brand Promise 00:51:54 The 3 Question Framework Every Business Should Ask Want to make influencing human behavior your company's superpower? Connect with me at howiechan.com/speaking and let's talk! What’s Your Influence Style? What do you do when you need someone to do something? This quiz will help you discover what is your most natural influence style, so you can use that strength more effectively (and know your blind spots). → https://www.influencestylequiz.com/ Join 700+ leaders who've already uncovered what their style is. Episode Resources: Check out my episode with  David Aaker here — or just go to episode 79. From Our Guest: Website LinkedIn YouTube Instagram Brand Desire by Kevin Perlmutter — Produced by Ideablossoms

Howie Chan interviews marketing icon David Aaker, widely regarded as the father of modern branding, to unpack the true drivers of brand equity — what a brand’s worth. In this episode, brand storytelling takes center stage as Aaker breaks down the myths around branding and reveals what actually influences customer decisions in modern days. From brand relevance to the power of loyalty, Aaker explains why branding goes far beyond awareness and image. He introduces his “Five B’s” framework and shows how brands shape both buying decisions and user experiences. You’ll learn why storytelling in marketing is one of the most effective tools in today’s cluttered and skeptical landscape, how to craft signature stories that captivate audiences, and why most companies are underutilizing their greatest competitive advantage: their “secret sauce.” Chapters: 00:00:00 Brand vs Brand Equity 00:04:01 The Five B’s of Modern Branding 00:09:01 Managing Negative Brand Perception 00:16:40 How to Create Powerful Signature Stories 00:25:47 Branding Beyond Ads (Events, Sponsorship & Communities) 00:30:30 The #1 Mistake Businesses Make with Branding 00:33:04 Uniqlo’s Example of Branding Differentiation and Innovation 00:52:26 High-Profile Branding Failures 00:57:09 Final Advice: “Brand Your Secret Sauce” From David Aaker: Website LinkedIn Take a look at David’s books mentioned in this episode: Aaker on Branding: Second Edition Creating Signature Stories Owning Game-Changing Subcategories Brand Portfolio Strategy  Check out my conversation with Matt Sucha: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Evkin9z6Z4w What’s Your Influence Style? What do you do when you need someone to do something? This quiz will help you discover what is your most natural influence style, so you can use that strength more effectively (and know your blind spots.) → https://www.influencestylequiz.com/ Join 700+ leaders who've already uncovered what their style is. — Produced by Ideablossoms