In this episode of Outlaws, Kate and Shayla are joined by Dr Carly Schrever, a former lawyer who retrained as a psychologist and went on to become Australia’s first dedicated judicial wellbeing adviser. Carly shares her own journey from law to psychology, including the moment she realised she was more interested in the human dynamics of the courtroom than legal argument. That pivot ultimately led her to groundbreaking research on judicial stress and wellbeing, including her role in the National Judicial Stress and Wellbeing Study. In this episode, Carly shares what the data actually tells us about stress in the legal profession and why judicial officers, despite deep job satisfaction and commitment, experience alarmingly high levels of burnout and secondary trauma. Carly explains why judges aren’t ‘above’ stress, why lower courts are under the greatest pressure and how systemic injustice itself becomes a source of psychological harm. The conversation also explores moral injury, intentional hope, and what it really takes to build a sustainable legal career inside an imperfect system. Rather than focusing solely on individual resilience, Carly makes a compelling case for systemic change  and for leaders being willing to speak honestly about the human cost of legal work. This is a thoughtful, rigorous discussion about law, justice, and what it means to stay human while working inside systems that are often broken. If you loved this episode... Share it with a friend who’s wanting a change (or just needs permission to do the thing!). Rate and review Outlaws on Apple Podcasts or Spotify — it helps more Outlaws find us Find out more Website: www.outlawspodcast.com Subscribe to our newsletter for updates, tools, and more Outlawbrary picks Connect with us Instagram: @the.outlaws.podcast - https://www.instagram.com/the.outlaws.podcast Facebook Group: Outlaws Podcast Community - https://www.facebook.com/groups/the.outlaws.podcast LinkedIn: Outlaws Podcast - https://www.linkedin.com/company/106681587 Email: [email protected] Hosted and produced by Shayla Strapps and Kate Offer