Liz Oyer understands the transactional nature of the current Justice Department more than most. In March of 2025, she was fired from her position as the US Pardon Attorney for refusing to reinstate actor Mel Gibson’s gun rights. Since then, she’s talked openly about her time in the DOJ and its unceremonious end and she's been targeted by Acting Attorney General Todd Blanche as a result. Still, she continues to shine a light on the abuses within the department she once revered. She joins Nicolle this week for a sober diagnosis of the ways in which Trump has “perverted” her former office and the crucial need to rebuild the public trust in the years ahead.  “I don't think anyone ever imagined a president who would say, ‘It's my interests first. What's in the interest of the public isn't primary...’ And that's what Donald Trump has done that's so new and different, and that our laws really aren't built for.” And while Oyer is wide-eyed about the grift within the Trump administration, she is also optimistic that this is an opportunity: “I'd like to be part  of the rebuilding in the future... to make it an institution that better serves the American people.” Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content and early access to new episodes of "The Best People." Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.