American culture often tries to emphasize “learning lessons” in the middle of suffering. For example, “Everything happens for a reason.” But Kate Bowler doesn’t think those “lessons”  are coming from God; rather, God draws close to the brokenhearted and accompanies them. On this episode of “The Spiritual Life” podcast host James Martin, S.J. is joined by scholar of American religion history, Kate Bowler, who is also the creator of the popular podcast “Everything Happens” and the author of bestselling books including Everything Happens for a Reason (and Other Lies I’ve Loved) and No Cure for Being Human. Her latest book is Joyful, Anyway! Timecodes: 0:00 God’s grace is not like math 1:05 Who is Kate Bowler? 5:22 How getting diagnosed with stage 4 cancer changed Kate’s faith 11:55 What not to say to someone who is suffering 19:38 How to accompany those who suffer 26:37 The problem with happiness and “good vibes only” 31:32 The paradox and practice of joy 44:10 Kate’s spiritual practices of honesty and service 47:35 Why its so hard to suffer in America 50:00 Audience Question: How do we believe in a just and loving God in the midst of an unjust and unloving world? 56:30 Kate’s blessing Do you have a spiritual question for Fr. Jim? You can write to us at: [email protected] Become a subscriber today at Americamagazine.org/subscribe Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices