<p>His enemies were hoping that Donald Trump would come out badly from the Epstein files, but he hasn't. Gerry argues that the scandal is a parable about modern capitalism, and remembers the time Jeffrey Epstein tried and failed to make friends with him. Katy tells the inside story of her interview with Peter Mandelson.</p><p>Also, what can we expect when the Clintons testify to the Epstein investigation? And what does President Trump mean when he says "nationalise the vote"?</p><br><p>Katy Balls,&nbsp;Washington editor and columnist at The Times and The Sunday Times</p><p>Gerard Baker, columnist at The Times and editor at large at The Wall Street Journal</p><br><p>Producer: Euan Dawtrey</p><p>Executive producer: Molly Guinness</p><br><p>Email us: <a href="mailto:[email protected]" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">[email protected]</a></p><p><em>This podcast was brought to you thanks to the support of readers of The Times and The Sunday Times. </em><a href="https://www.thetimes.com/subscribe/?utm_source=podcasts&amp;utm_medium=audio&amp;utm_campaign=FY26_TML_thestateofitusa_" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><em>Subscribe today</em></a></p><hr><p style='color:grey; font-size:0.75em;'> Hosted on Acast. See <a style='color:grey;' target='_blank' rel='noopener noreferrer' href='https://acast.com/privacy'>acast.com/privacy</a> for more information.</p>