From calls to abolish ICE to deeply held misconceptions about immigration and criminality, few agencies generate more heat and less light than Immigration and Customs Enforcement. In this episode, we dig into the reality of how ICE actually operates, including the fact that the vast majority of people ICE arrests have no criminal record. Jason Houser served as ICE Chief of Staff and is an Intelligence Officer in the Navy Reserve. He joins us to sort out truth from fiction: Why is the Trump administration redirecting criminal law enforcement agents to civil deportation work? Is that akin to defunding the police? How many ICE officers actually need to be armed? And what should the future of this agency look like? ==Learn More== Amanda, Claire, and Doug express their own personal opinions on The Melting Pod. This episode was produced by Michael Palmer (⁠palmer.media⁠). Read more about the topics in this episode: * Agents with Homeland Security Investigations push to break away from ICE, saying negative reputation hurts their work - Washington Post (December 29, 2021) * ICE Has Diverted Over 25,000 Officers from Their Jobs - Cato Institute (September 3, 2025) * U.S. Unauthorized Immigrant Population Reached a Record 14 Million in 2023 - Pew Research Center (August 21, 2025) * 5% of People Detained by ICE Have Violent Convictions, 73% No Convictions - Cato Institute (November 26, 2025) * What Is a Sanctuary City? - Vera Institute of Justice (April 22, 2025) * One Bovino After Another - The American Prospect (January 27, 2026) * ICE Recruitment Tweets Are So Racist That Cops Feared They Could Incite Neo-Nazi Violence - The Intercept (May 21, 2026) ==Corrections== (1) Border Patrol has expanded checkpoint and search authorities within 100 miles of any land border or U.S. coastline. About two-thirds of the U.S. population live within this area, which includes Chicago, Los Angeles, and New York City (but not Minneapolis). Explainer: U.S. Border Patrol Authorities and the 100-Mile Border Zone - National Immigration Forum (March 31, 2026) (2) Alas, the Nicolas Cage character in National Treasure is “an American treasure hunter and cryptologist,” not an HSI agent. But the Harvey Keitel character is an FBI special agent in charge of hunting down antiquities! If the stolen Declaration of Independence crossed an international border, surely he’d pull in HSI… ==Give More== Want to help build a more sane and humane immigration system? Support hardworking organizations like these: National: * ⁠#AfghanEvac⁠ – working to ensure the U.S. keeps its promise to our Afghan allies * ⁠Asylum Seeker Advocacy Project⁠ – the country’s largest membership organization of asylum seekers, working together for change * ⁠Black Alliance for Just Immigration (BAJI)⁠ – organizing and advocating for racial, social and economic justice * ⁠Haitian Bridge Alliance⁠ – providing humanitarian, legal, and social services * ⁠International Refugee Assistance Project (IRAP)⁠ - strategic litigation and advocacy to uphold the rights of people seeking safety * ⁠Justice Action Center⁠ - immigrant justice through litigation and storytelling Local: * ⁠Al Otro Lado⁠ - legal and humanitarian support to refugees, deportees, and other migrants in the U.S. and Tijuana * ⁠Catholic Charities Rio Grande Valley⁠ - providing assistance to the poor and most vulnerable populations in the Rio Grande Valley community * ⁠Las Americas Immigrant Advocacy Center⁠ - free and low-cost legal services to immigrants and refugees in West Texas, New Mexico, and Ciudad Juarez, Mexico * ⁠Support an immigration service provider near you⁠ ==Chapters== (0:00:00) Intro (0:00:54) Meet Jason Houser (0:04:17) What does the Chief of Staff of ICE do?  (0:05:29) What is the purpose of ICE? (0:07:06) What is the difference between Homeland Security Investigations (HSI) and Enforcement and Removal Operations (ERO)? (0:11:25) When HSI tried to break away from ICE  (0:12:58) Immigration enforcement is civil, not criminal  (0:16:13) Indiscriminate deportations vs. enforcement priorities (0:22:00) ICE and local law enforcement  (0:25:23) Chief Bovino’s carnival act   (0:28:32) Donald Trump defunds the police  (0:29:42) What is a sanctuary city?  (0:38:03) Scapegoating immigrants as criminals  (0:41:19) ICE is mostly desk jobs  (0:47:35) Why does an ICE officer need a gun?  (0:49:16) What is the future of ICE?