Burn The Rules with Chet Hirani

They called it a quick chat. Marisa Kamall was on maternity leave. Still recovering from pneumonia that had nearly killed her. Her newborn was in the next room. And HSBC the company she'd given 15 years to, the one where she'd grown from analyst to Managing Director, leading teams of thousands across four continents called to restructure her role. Over Zoom. When she cried, her manager said: 'I didn't think you'd react like this.' That moment taught her something that no performance review, no promotion, and no amount of over-delivering ever would: no company will care about your career the way you do. The system wasn't built to make room for her. And the life she has now GAIA, the leadership community, the coaching, the mission only exists because she stopped waiting for it to. This is one of the most honest conversations we've had on Burn The Rules. Chapters 00:00 — Welcome + Marisa’s journey into the conversation 04:05 — The inside reality of corporate success 10:10 — Why Gaia exists and the mission behind it 20:43 — The “quick chat” call that changed everything 26:02 — Rebuilding identity, confidence, and leadership after corporate 31:48 — Stop rehearsing the person you think you should be 38:08 — What it really means to lead from within 42:55 — The triple hit: motherhood, illness, and restructuring 47:07 — Fitness, discipline, and regulating mind, body, and soul 57:13 — Why the system doesn’t make room for you 58:48 — How Gaia grew from an idea into a real community 64:29 — ChatGP She and women shaping the AI era 68:12 — The questions every leader should ask themselves 69:09 — Ten and Done quickfire round 72:35 — Who Gaia is for + how to connect 73:54 — Final message: speak up and take care of yourself Connect with Marisa: LinkedIn GAIA: www.GaiaRises.com For more information about me go to: chethirani.com Get my 2 x Award Winning Bestselling book: Burn The Rules Here Connect, Follow & Subscribe: LinkedIn Youtube Instagram Facebook TikTok

How many of your decisions this week were shaped by what you actually believe and how many were shaped by what you wanted other people to think of you? This is the most camouflaged leadership trap I know. It doesn't look like weakness. It looks like being collaborative. Like being emotionally intelligent. Like being a good person. But it's approval-seeking and it's costing you more than you know. And for the first time in the series, it doesn't just diagnose. It shows you a way through. I share my parents' story a love marriage that cost them everything the community approved of, and gave them everything that actually mattered. And a 2012 workshop that fell apart completely and taught me the most important thing I know about what happens when you finally drop the mask. The version of you that stops trying to be liked is the version that finally starts to lead. Chapters 00:00 Introduction: The leadership trap of approval seeking 02:54 How approval seeking manifests in leadership behaviors 04:48 The story of the speaker's parents and leadership values 08:21 The importance of authenticity and dropping the mask 10:14 Action steps to overcome approval seeking in leadership 14:51 Redefining Leadership 15:20 The Practice of Leadership More on me: Take the Pressure Pattern Check For more information about me go to: chethirani.com Get my Award Winning Bestselling book: Burn The Rules Here Connect, Follow & Subscribe: LinkedIn Youtube Instagram Facebook TikTok

Most high-performing leaders spend years building a life that looks exactly like success is supposed to look. The title. The salary. The house. The holidays. The family photo that belongs on the front of a magazine. Deepika Sandhu had all of it. And she still felt profoundly, quietly empty. So she did something that almost nobody does. She scheduled her own breakdown. Put it in her calendar. Showed up for it. And in the space that created the slowing down, the silence, the sitting with herself she found the clarity that 25 years of relentless performance had never given her. Today, Deepika is the founder of Soul Sparks Press North America's fastest growing publishing house, built to over 106 authors in 21 months. She's a six-time award-winning bestselling author, CEO of the Year at the Unicorn Summit, and someone who now describes her life not by what it looks like but by how it feels. This conversation is between two people who are genuinely inside each other's worlds. Which is exactly why it goes to places most podcast conversations don't. Chapters 00:00 The Pressure of Silicon Valley Leadership 04:45 Transitioning from Corporate to SoulSparks Press 07:41 Redefining Success and Impact 10:26 The Journey of Self-Discovery 13:07 The Power of Scheduled Breakdowns 15:51 Dismantling Old Beliefs 18:45 Taking Risks and Embracing Entrepreneurship 21:48 Managing Pressure and Doubt 24:24 The Importance of Support and Community 27:11 Flow vs. Deadlines in Creativity 30:01 The Evolution of Self and Business 32:56 Navigating Pressure Moments 35:42 Overcoming Doubt and Inner Critic 39:38 Trusting the Process 45:44 Owning Your Choices 50:36 Lessons from Life Transitions 56:24 Finding Your Authentic Voice 59:31 The Power of Storytelling 01:10:29 Redefining Leadership 01:10:57 The Practice of Leadership Connect with Deepika: Instagram Soul Sparks Press on Instagram Soul Sparks Press Website More on me: Take the Pressure Pattern Check For more information about me go to: chethirani.com Get my Award Winning Bestselling book: Burn The Rules Here Connect, Follow & Subscribe: LinkedIn Youtube Instagram Facebook TikTok

The return-to-office debate has nothing to do with culture, collaboration, or productivity. It has everything to do with control. And the leaders mandating it mostly can't tell you why beyond 'we need people back in the building.' But before the remote work crowd starts cheering this episode comes for you too. Because flexibility isn't automatically freedom. And a green dot on Slack isn't the same as doing your best work. The real problem isn't where people sit. It's whether your leaders can actually lead regardless of where anyone is. If that question makes you uncomfortable, this episode is for you. Chapters 00:00 The Real Debate Behind Return to Office 02:53 The Leadership Quality Problem 05:41 Key Factors for Team Success 08:30 Building Trust and Connection More on me: Take the Pressure Pattern Check For more information about me go to: chethirani.com Get my Award Winning Bestselling book: Burn The Rules Here Connect, Follow & Subscribe: LinkedIn Youtube Instagram Facebook TikTok #BurnTheRules #LeadFromWithin #ReturnToOffice #RTO #RemoteWork #Leadership #HybridWork #ExecutiveLeadership #Podcast #OrganisationalCulture #Trust

Most high performers aren't stuck because they're not good enough. They're stuck because they've outgrown the version of themselves that got them there. And the system keeps rewarding the old version. Anam Irfan has spent 16 years inside the GCC's most complex organisations leading HR for 37,000 people at Majid Al Futtaim, shaping AI hiring as CPO at Bytespark, and now advising leaders and talent on how to navigate the market and build real pull. In this conversation, she says the things the HR world usually keeps quiet: that great talent doesn't always rise on merit, that the traditional hiring funnel is a trap, and that AI isn't coming for leaders who think it's coming for the ones who were never really leading. ▶ IN THIS EPISODE Why great talent doesn't always rise on merit and the two things that actually determine who gets promoted in the GCC Access mapping: Anam's methodology for navigating career growth from 'what jobs are available' to 'who are the decision-makers and how do I get in front of them' The expat pressure nobody talks about and why it changes how people behave at work in ways that don't serve them The worst thing you can do for your CV and what a top recruiter actually wants to see instead How AI has changed what gets you noticed and what gets you filtered out before a human ever sees your name What high performers need to unlearn and why the system rewarding your current behaviour is the exact thing holding you back Why vulnerability was the skill she learned last and what finally changed when she stopped needing to have all the answers Connect with Anam: LinkedIn Chapters: 00:00 - Introduction and Personal Updates 03:37 - Navigating Career Growth in the GCC 05:55 - The Importance of Relationship Building 08:49 - Challenges of Expat Life in the GCC 11:27 - Career Transitions and Personal Growth 14:03 - The Role of AI in Recruitment 16:34 - Visibility and Access in Career Advancement 19:09 - Leadership in the Age of AI 22:01 - Strategies for Career Growth 24:44 - Networking and Relationship Building 27:04 - The Value of a Strong CV 31:01 - Crafting a Standout CV 36:07 - The Importance of Visibility and Communication 39:26 - Navigating High-Stakes Decisions with Empathy 43:42 - Embracing Vulnerability in Leadership 50:56 - Leveraging AI in the Hiring Process 54:47 - Taking Action: Building Your Personal Brand 01:01:19 - Redefining Leadership 01:01:47 - The Practice of Leadership More on me: Take the Pressure Pattern Check For more information about me go to: chethirani.com Get my Award Winning Bestselling book: Burn The Rules Here Connect, Follow & Subscribe: LinkedIn Youtube Instagram Facebook TikTok