EP 36: Why Photographers Undercharge (Money Shame, Pricing, and Second Shooters) with Patrick Fore

This week is a pod swap, Campers — we're gathered around a fire shared with Patrick Fore of The Terrible Creative. Patrick reached out about joining forces, and what came out of it was a raw, honest conversation about money shame: the stories we inherit from our families, the fear behind undercharging, and how to separate the emotion of money from the math of running a business. IN THIS EPISODE: - How childhood money stories (layoffs, blue-collar roots, "money Saturdays") quietly shape how we price and negotiate as adults - Why Shelly's economics degree and ten years at Citibank became the backbone of Creative Camp's whole philosophy - The messy truth about second shooters, copyright, and who actually owns those images - Licensing 101: why usage is baked into (or missing from) most photographers' pricing - A real-time negotiation story: Shelly's client asked her to cut a quote in half, and what she did instead of caving - Why people undercharge — fear, identity, scarcity — and Shelly's "raise it until you get a no" method - Patrick's "gamify it" trick for taking emotion out of budget conversations - The stoic reframe that helps with money anxiety: "what's the best thing that could happen?" - Patrick's brutal 2025 (from $123K to selling his backup camera) and why just surviving deserves a gold star RESOURCES & LINKS MENTIONED: - Patrick's podcast and book, The Terrible Creative: theterriblecreative.com - Patrick's portfolio: patrickfore.com - Patrick on Instagram: @patrickfore - The Terrible Creative on Instagram: @terriblephotographer - Ren & Jen's Photo Dump EP 50 on "would you start over in 2026" - Dawn Heumann's thought piece on starting a photography business today and another piece how much goes into a photo shoot CREATIVE CAMP LINKS Instagram: ⁠⁠instagram.com/creativecamp.pro⁠⁠ Substack:⁠⁠ substack.com/@creativecamp⁠⁠ ⁠⁠Camp Bulletin ⁠⁠Buy Me a Coffee⁠⁠: buymeacoffee.com/creativecamp And if this episode helped, leave us a review — it helps more Campers find the fire. - Basecamp Bundle — four courses covering swipe copy, visibility, usage licensing, and goal planning, all for $197: outpost.creativecamp.pro/basecamp/ - Creative Sidekick — 6 months of 1:1 coaching on strategy, pricing, and pitching. Apply for a discovery call: creativecamp.pro/sidekick ABOUT THE HOST Shelly Waldman is a commercial photographer and the founder of Creative Camp, a business education platform for photographers and creative freelancers. Known as "The Analytical Creative," she draws on a background in economics and ten years as a financial analyst to help creatives build sustainable, well-priced businesses. She hosts the Creative Campfire podcast from her home base in London. ABOUT THE GUEST Patrick Fore is a commercial photographer and host of The Terrible Creative podcast, where he talks candidly about identity, money, and the long middle of a freelance career. He's the author of Lessons From a Terrible Photographer, now available on Audible. Find his work at patrickfore.com.