ECFA Podcast

Long before Michael Martin became President and CEO of ECFA, he experienced something that changed the way he thought about trust, stewardship, and the health of Christian ministries. In this special bonus episode, Michael shares the personal story behind his passion, including a season when the Christian university he attended faced serious financial and governance challenges. What happened left a lasting impression on him and helped shape the work he would eventually dedicate his life to. Michael and Ryan Gordon also explore why ministry drift is often subtle, why fear and pride can keep leaders from inviting accountability, and why even strong organizations need safeguards. This conversation goes beyond policies, financial statements, and governance structures. It gets to the heart of what accountability protects: trust, credibility, donor confidence, healthy leadership, and ultimately the Gospel witness. If you’re a leader, pastor, board member, executive, or donor, this episode offers a practical and hopeful look at why accountability matters before a crisis ever happens. In this episode: • The experience that made accountability deeply personal for Michael • Why organizational drift usually happens slowly • The connection between accountability, credibility, and trust • Why accountability is not the same as perfection • How fear and pride can make ministries resistant to outside accountability • Why safeguards help protect leaders and organizations • What Michael means when he says “accountability accelerates the Gospel” • Why accountability can be redemptive, not punitive Additional Resources ECFA.org 2 Corinthians 8:20–21: “For we are taking pains to do what is right, not only in the eyes of the Lord but also in the eyes of man.” How Leaders Lose Their Way: Buy the Book or Listen to our interview with Peter

Why is it so hard for leaders to admit they need care? In this bonus episode of Behind the Seal, Mindy Caliguire returns to explore the internal resistance so many leaders face when it comes to their own health. Joined by ECFA President Michael Martin, this conversation moves beyond theory and into the real-life tension leaders experience every day. From the hidden cost of constant output to the surprising discomfort of rest, Mindy and Michael unpack why leaders often avoid what they need most, and what happens when they finally choose to face it. You’ll also hear: Why self-awareness is the first and hardest step What leaders discover when they stop “powering through” The unexpected reality of sabbatical (it’s not always what you think) Why it’s never too late for God to meet you — even in burnout If you’ve ever felt stretched, exhausted, or unsure how to slow down, this conversation will meet you right where you are. About Mindy Caliguire: Mindy Caliguire is the founder of Soul Care, a ministry dedicated to helping leaders cultivate a healthy soul. With decades of experience in spiritual formation and leadership development, Mindy has guided countless leaders through seasons of burnout, renewal, and long-term sustainability. Her work equips individuals and organizations to integrate rhythms of rest, reflection, and relational support into everyday leadership so they can flourish for the long haul. Key Takeaways: Leaders often struggle to admit they need care, even when the signs are clear. Self-awareness is the starting point. You can’t address what you won’t acknowledge. Leaders have countless ways to avoid their struggles. Busyness often masks deeper needs. “Powering through” comes at a cost. Eventually, the system runs dry. Sabbatical isn’t about breakthroughs — it’s about rest and letting the ground lie fallow. The most meaningful transformation often happens in ordinary moments with God. Leader care fuels mission effectiveness. It’s not separate from impact, it sustains it. It’s never too late to begin. Even crisis moments can become turning points. Additional Resources: ECFA Leader Care Resources Soul Care by Mindy Caliguire Spiritual direction & coaching resources Call to Action: If this episode resonated with you, take a next step: Share this with a leader who might be quietly struggling Subscribe for more conversations on healthy leadership Reflect honestly: Where am I avoiding the care I need?

Too many leaders assume trust should be unconditional — but Scripture tells a different story. In this season finale of Behind the Seal, bestselling author and Proverbs 31 Ministries president Lysa TerKeurst reveals why unconditional trust is not only unbiblical, but unsafe — and how to rebuild trust with wisdom, boundaries, and Spirit-led discernment. Lysa unpacks the difference between blind trust and wise trust, why forgiveness is ultimately about your freedom, and how to discern between a triggered fear and a legitimate red flag. She also shares from her own journey through heartbreak, healing, and surrender — and what it truly looks like to walk forward without becoming hardened, bitter, or closed off. If you’ve ever been hurt, betrayed, or left wondering if trust is even possible again — in ministry, leadership, or life — this episode will meet you right where you are. About Lysa TerKeurst Lysa TerKeurst is president and chief visionary officer of Proverbs 31 Ministries and the author of eight New York Times bestsellers, including I Want to Trust You, but I Don’t, Good Boundaries and Goodbyes, Forgiving What You Can’t Forget, and It’s Not Supposed to Be This Way. She enjoys life with her husband Chaz and her kids and grandkids. Connect with her at www.LysaTerKeurst.com or on social media @LysaTerKeurst. Additional Resources · I Want to Trust You, but I Don’t – Lysa TerKeurst · Forgiving What You Can’t Forget – Lysa TerKeurst · Good Boundaries and Goodbyes – Lysa TerKeurst · Therapy & Theology Podcast with Lysa TerKeurst, Dr. Joel Muddamalle & Jim Cress · American Association of Christian Counselors (AACC) – for counseling referrals · ECFA.org/LeaderCare – Resources for healthy, trustworthy leadership · Proverbs 31 Ministries If this conversation encouraged you, share it with someone navigating hurt, healing, or rebuilding trust. 💬 Comment below: What part of Lysa’s wisdom on trust or forgiveness resonated with you most? 🎧 And don’t forget to like, share, and subscribe for more conversations on healthy leadership, emotional integrity, and stewarding influence with wisdom.

Most leaders push past their own emotions without ever slowing down long enough to ask, “What’s happening in my soul?” In this episode of Behind the Seal, Bill & Kristi Gaultiere—founders of Soul Shepherding and authors of Deeply Loved—share how empathy isn’t weakness; it’s oxygen for the soul. In a conversation packed with insight and vulnerability, they unpack why emotions matter to God, how Jesus models empathy, and why healthy leaders must learn to receive empathy—not just give it. From spiritual formation to burnout prevention and the “4 A’s of Empathy,” this episode gives leaders permission to breathe again. If you’ve ever felt pressure to be strong, keep moving, or “power through,” this conversation will meet you right where you are—and remind you that you are deeply loved by God. About Bill & Kristi Gaultiere Bill & Kristi Gaultiere are the co-founders of Soul Shepherding, a ministry dedicated to helping pastors, missionaries, and Christian leaders thrive in emotional and spiritual health. Together they lead the Soul Shepherding Institute, train spiritual directors and coaches, and host the Soul Talks podcast. Bill is a psychologist and spiritual director; Kristi is a psychotherapist, spiritual director, and executive leader with a passion for emotional intelligence in Christian leadership. Their newest book, Deeply Loved, guides readers into experiencing Jesus’ empathy through Scripture, prayer, and community. Their ministry has helped thousands of leaders learn to rest in Jesus’ easy yoke, receive God’s grace in deeper ways, and lead from a whole, healthy soul. Additional Resources · ECFA.org/LeaderCare · Learn more about Soul Shepherding · Deeply Loved by Bill & Kristi Gaultiere · Soul Talks Podcast · Soul Shepherding Institute Retreats · Find a Soul Shepherding spiritual director or coach If this conversation encouraged you, share it with a leader who needs a reminder that their soul matters. 💬 Comment below: Which of the 4 A’s of Empathy do you most want to grow in? 🎧 And don’t forget to like, share, and subscribe for more conversations on healthy leadership, emotional integrity, and caring for the souls of those who serve. Timestamps 00:00 – Intro 01:21 – Michael welcomes Bill & Kristi 05:57 – Leaders’ inner life: why “under the hood” matters 08:22 – Kristi’s story: emotions, shame, and the healing power of empathy 12:00 – Why some Christians misunderstand empathy 15:00 – How emotions and thinking are meant to integrate 18:13 – Unconscious resistance: why leaders block empathy without realizing it 21:00 – Bill’s story: learning to feel after a lifetime of stuffing emotions 27:10 – Receiving empathy vs. rushing to solutions 32:09 – The 4 A’s of Empathy (Ask, Attune, Acknowledge, Affirm) 38:04 – Empathy prayer and connecting with Jesus’ emotions 45:19 – Empathy as oxygen for the soul 47:17 – Boundaries, burnout, and stewarding empathy 50:49 – We all need a safe place to process emotions 52:48 – Empathy + Truth + Responsibility = Growth 56:17 – Empathy Fatigue: How to set healthy boundaries with empathy 1:00:04 – A word of encouragement for weary leaders 1:04:35 – Outro

How do you lead when five generations share the same mission—but not always the same mindset? In this timely episode of Behind the Seal, David Robbins, Global President of Cru, joins host Michael Martin to explore the challenges and opportunities of Cross-Generational Leadership. From Gen Z’s boldness to Boomers’ steadfastness, David shares how understanding, repentance, and relational trust can transform generational tension into unity. Drawing from his global leadership experience and years leading FamilyLife, David offers real-life lessons on building trust, cultivating humility, and leading at the Lord’s pace. If you’re navigating a multi-generational team, board, or ministry, this episode will help you build bridges that strengthen your mission—and your people. About David Robbins: David Robbins serves as the Global President of Cru, a worldwide Christian ministry helping to fulfill the Great Commission through evangelism, discipleship, and leadership development. Over the past 25 years with Cru, David and his wife, Meg, have served in a variety of ministry contexts—from discipling college students and young professionals in New York City to leading FamilyLife, a global ministry focused on strengthening marriages and families. David and Meg live in Orlando, Florida, with their four children. Their family embodies his leadership message: serving together, learning together, and following Jesus faithfully across generations. Additional Resources: ECFA.org/LeaderCare Learn more about Cru Learn more about FamilyLife The Emotionally Healthy Leader by Peter Scazzero