S2 Episode 09: Non-Conformity: Changing Britain’s Past and Heritage’s Future Part 2

What happens when a community has the courage to challenge, the faith to persist, and the nerve to imagine a different future? And what is lost when the buildings that held that community together begin to disappear? In part two, Sarah Dowd reunites with Chris Smith, Chair of the Historic Chapels Trust, and Steve Pilcher, longtime campaigner for England's chapels, to take the story further, from nonconformist conscience as a force for reform and public morality, to the harder questions of what comes next. They also discuss Sunday schools as engines of social mobility, the hard road of repurposing sacred space, fundraising in a pandemic, and a rare positive tale of winding a charity down. Highlights: 00:00 Why the “nonconformist conscience” changed Britain 01:44 Bethesda Chapel: the power and perils of an iconic building 04:10 Why nonconformist architecture is designed for the voice 08:10 Sunday schools, education, and the struggle for opportunity 16:54 Courage & mutual aid: what builds and sustains a chapel community 18:13 When faith fades, what happens to the buildings? 21:22 The painful art of letting go and the future uses of chapels 28:56 Meeting the modern challenge: inventing new reasons for old places 30:41 The tough decision to wind down the Historic Chapels Trust 41:05 Why buildings are only as strong as the people powering them 54:42 Nonconformity in action: charity, courage, and regulatory reform 57:10 Working with new generations and new energy 61:07 The surprising success of community asset transfers 63:31 Having faith in people, in change, and in impossible things About Chris Smith: Chris Smith is Chair of Historic Chapels Trust and a lifelong heritage professional with extensive experience in conservation, planning and historic environment management. Formerly a Director at Historic England, he became Chair in 2019 and has since focused on securing sustainable futures for chapels through community ownership and adaptive reuse. Chris is passionate about heritage as a tool for shaping the future, not simply preserving the past. About Steve Pilcher: Steve Pilcher is a heritage specialist and former Deputy Director of Historic Chapels Trust, where he worked from 2003 to 2016. Before that, he spent two decades with English Heritage across industrial archaeology, conservation and policy. A building conservation specialist, Steve continues to support heritage projects and volunteer-led initiatives today. About Sarah Dowd: I’m Sarah Dowd - writer, speaker, heritage and arts consultant, producer, and all-around nerd - here to share the stories of our past that make us laugh, gasp, and mutter: It’s History… For F***k’s Sake. For 25+ years I’ve created immersive, inclusive experiences that bring history alive, from rallying Second World War convoys through London to staging performances between Pearly Kings and Gen Z creatives. My work spans museums, cathedral crypts, pop-up theatres, global brands, and community projects across the UK and beyond. As a Canadian living between the UK and France (with a late ADHD diagnosis that fuels my curiosity and creativity), I zigzag through culture, history, and big ideas, but never boring ones. Every week on HistoryFFS, we explore how history echoes through today, make sure you are following the show so you don’t miss an episode. Connect with Sarah: Website: www.historyffs.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarahdowd/ https://www.linkedin.com/company/historyffs-pod/ Substack: @historyffs YouTube: @HistoryFFSPod Instagram: @historyFFSPod TikTok: @historyffspod X: @HistoryFFSPod Bluesky: @historyffs.bsky.social