Complex Illness, Brain Symptoms & Paths to Healing - With Neil Nathan, MD

In this episode, I have the pleasure of speaking with Dr. Neil Nathan about the intersection between brain symptoms and complex illness. Dr. Nathan has practiced medicine for over 50 years. He is one of the leading experts in complex chronic illness and mold toxicity — author of the bestselling Toxic: Heal Your Body from Mold Toxicity, Lyme Disease, Multiple Chemical Sensitivity, and Chronic Environmental Illness and The Sensitive Patient's Healing Guide. I am grateful to call Dr. Nathan a mentor and colleague. His pioneering work has been responsible for my healing from chronic illness, as well as that of many patients I've treated. Together, we co-lead a small peer group (within the larger mentoring group he provides with Marie Matheson, ND), supporting practitioners who treat those with complex chronic illness. In this episode we discuss: 03:43 – Dr. Nathan’s path to understanding complex illness11:20 – Why complex illness is rising and underrecognized19:30 – Why new medical ideas take decades to reach patients23:15 – Mold, Lyme, and long-COVID: the “big three” root causes25:58 – The limbic-vagal-mast cell “trifecta”30:31 – Are some people born more vulnerable?44:39 – The risk in “just do limbic retraining” advice 47:35 - Biochemical contributors49:26 – Structural root: jaw and cervical instability53:58 – Differentiating Between Mold, Lyme & Long-COVID58:49 – A message of hope, and where to learn more Full Transcript below You can find Dr. Nathan’s books, consultations and mentoring program through his website at neilnathanmd.com. If you’d like to help get this information out into the world, please consider liking, sharing, or commenting. Until next time,CourtneyCourtney Snyder MD Dr. Courtney Snyder MD is a holistic and functional child and adult psychiatrist and host of the Holistic Psychiatry Podcast and can be found at courtneysnydermd.com Medical Disclaimer This podcast is for educational purposes only and is not intended or implied to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Consult your own physician for any medical issues you may be having. Full Transcript Dr. Nathan’s Path to Understanding Complex Illness 03:43 Courtney: I’m so glad we’re doing this, and I feel like it’s long overdue. As you know, in the mental health space in psychiatry, there’s a lot of recognition of a dysregulated nervous system, threat response in the body, but oftentimes that’s attributed to external forces or trauma, and not necessarily internal threats that we see, obviously, in complex chronic illness, which we’ll be talking about. There’s also not the recognition of the relationship between physical symptoms and brain-related symptoms. So I know you’re going to help us connect a lot of these dots. As we sort of just lay the groundwork for what complex chronic illness is — when in your path did you start to recognize the distinction, when was the beginning of your work and appreciation of complex health issues? Neil: Okay, there are two answers to that question. First, when I went to medical school, my hope was to become a healer. And I was very disappointed that when I got there, I realized they weren’t going to teach me to be a healer. And back then I used to question my professors at medical school — why do you do it this way, and how is that? And I kept feeling in all of our interactions that we were missing something. And my professors would go, “Okay, Mr. Wise Guy, smart guy, what are we missing?” And I’d go, “I don’t know, I just know we’re missing something.” Later I would come to recognize that we were missing the emotional and spiritual component to whatever was affecting people in their illnesses. And I have language for it now — I didn’t then. The person in medical school who influenced me the most was Elisabeth Kübler-Ross, who I view as my main mentor in medical school. She, unlike anyone else, had a one-and-a-half-hour seminar once a week. Back then there weren’t video cameras — you were in a small confined room with a two-way mirror, and you’re sitting there watching someone do this. And she would simply interview one of her patients. She was a psychiatrist, but she was the only one in medical school who demonstrated how to really listen to people, how to really communicate with them, and not have this standard review of systems — here’s my questions, here’s your answers, and that’s what I do, and this is what I write up. She was really listening. She was trying to really take in, okay, what happened to you, and what’s going on with you? So I would want to give her credit as a role model to change how I learn to listen. Okay, that was step one. I’m going to fast forward to the early 1980s. And I am, at that point, the medical director of a regional pain clinic. And we are starting to see a whole bunch of patients who had this complicated process of fatigue, unrefreshed sleep, irritable bowel syndrome, and pain migrating all over their body. And back then we called it fibrositis. Now we call this fibromyalgia. And so whenever medicine encounters a thing that they don’t know what they’re looking at, it’s psychological until proven otherwise. And people would get therapy, and they would take antidepressants and anti-anxiety agents. Didn’t help much. And so it became clear to me that we didn’t understand what this was at all. It was not psychological. Something was going on in their bodies — now I recognize it as an inflammatory process. Back then there was no concept of that at all. And then, slowly, in the early nineties, we began to find pieces of the puzzle to understand what was triggering fibromyalgia. I was working back then with Jacob Teitelbaum, who did a lot of work with chronic fatigue and fibromyalgia, and we both independently came up with an understanding that a deficiency of magnesium, DHEA, adrenal issues, thyroid issues, sex hormone deficiencies, GI dysbiosis, and food allergy — if we looked at those and treated those, the majority of people with fibromyalgia got cured. It was different for different patients. It was not like there was one thing that caused it. And as time evolved, we began to realize that there was lots of other biochemical imbalances in the body that would contribute to this kind of a process that represented chronic fatigue and fibromyalgia. We discovered that Lyme disease and coinfections was a huge piece of that. And later still we discovered that mold toxicity was a huge piece of that. And so my understanding of the complexity — and it’s not really confined to chronic fatigue and fibromyalgia at this point, we’re really talking about almost all chronic illness — with a huge psychological component to that. So we’ve begun to understand this as essentially some version of inflammation. And if we start to really dig into what are the potential causes of that inflammation, we can make a huge impact for them. So this is a multi-year evolving understanding of how a person’s genetics, biochemistry, physiology impacts their whole being in every way. And that inflammation extends to the nervous system, contributing greatly, if not causing directly, a large number of what are now called psychiatric diagnoses. Courtney: Right. So even among those patients that you were seeing — you were seeing, I’m assuming, depression, anxiety, brain fog? Neil: Yeah, the vast majority of our patients with mold toxicity have brain fog and anxiety, depression, OCD behaviors, mood swings, depersonalization, derealization. I mean, all of that is super common in our patients. Complex Illness Is Rising — and Underrecognized 11:20 Courtney: Do you feel like this is more recognized now — or do you feel like the number of people being hit with these complex health issues is increasing — or both? Neil: Both. I would love to say that the medical profession is increasingly recognizing all of this as important, but that recognition is coming very, very slowly. The majority of folks out there, if they were to list the symptoms that they… This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit courtneysnydermd.substack.com