073 Matthew Johnson on Effective Disagreement, Next Phrase, Local Government Communication

Leadership, Communication, and the Move from Manager to Guide with Matthew JohnsonOn this episode of the Lead Well Podcast, host Brendan Holland speaks with Matthew Johnson, a longtime local government leader, about what leadership looks like in practice—and how better communication can help leaders navigate difficult conversations.Matthew shares how nearly 25 years in local government shaped his approach to leadership, including a pivotal mistake at a public rezoning meeting and the mentor who helped him learn from it. He also explains why giving employees autonomy matters, how Exactly What to Say influenced his communication style, and what inspired his new venture focused on helping local government leaders handle high-stakes conversations.The conversation also touches on Matthew’s upcoming book, Effective Disagreement, and the need for more communication training in local government. Topics CoveredDefining leadership as helping others succeed Building leadership experience in local government Learning from mentors and early-career mistakes Navigating the transition from colleague to leader Giving employees autonomy and avoiding micromanagement Applying Exactly What to Say to workplace conversations Communicating with residents during public hearings Helping local government leaders manage high-stakes conversations Matthew’s upcoming book, Effective Disagreement Episode Timestamps00:00 Welcome to the Lead Well Podcast and introduction to Matthew Johnson 01:30 Matthew’s definition of leadership 02:27 Moving from a larger municipality to a smaller one 03:25 Learning leadership through broader responsibilities 05:51 The “buddy to boss” transition 07:39 A mentor who helped Matthew grow as a leader 08:05 A difficult rezoning meeting—and the lesson it taught 09:57 Treating employees like volunteers 10:47 Leadership books and Exactly What to Say 12:06 Practicing better communication at work 14:20 Matthew’s new venture serving local government 16:12 Improving high-stakes conversations 17:09 Effective Disagreement and where to find Matthew 18:40 The role of communication training in MPA programs 19:35 Closing thoughts and how to connect with Matthew About Matthew JohnsonMatthew Johnson is a local government executive with nearly 25 years of experience. He is developing a venture to help local government leaders communicate more effectively and is writing Effective Disagreement, a book about navigating disagreement in public service.Find Matthew on LinkedIn by searching for Matthew Johnson or Effective Disagreement. The episode also mentions his website, whatyousaynext.com.