#97 Sophie Strand & Henry Kramer on Imaginal Empathy, Consciousness, and Re-Enchantment

Send a love message Sophie and Henry explore consciousness, mind, and the porous boundary between inner and outer experience. The conversation ranges from panpsychism and animism to imaginal empathy, ecology, myth, and why modern life makes it so hard to stay open to mystery. Sophie brings a wide ranging perspective shaped by writing, spirituality, ecology, the history of religion, and Eros. The two ground the discussion in consciousness, reenchantment, and the question of how language and labels can flatten lived experience. A few references: On empathy and imagining the lifeworlds of other beings: Sophie Strand, “Supracellular” through Emergence Magazine, Stephen Harrod Buhner, Taliesin, Paul Shepard On challenging the individual self: Jeff VanderMeer, Annihilation, Emanuele Coccia, Metamorphoses, Amitov Ghosh On the imaginal and its relationship to reality: JRR Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings and William Blake, “Double Vision” On panpsychism: Philip Goff, Galileo’s Error, Aldous Huxley, The Doors of Perception, Michael Pollan, A World Appears: A Journey into Consciousness On trickster pedagogy and weirding the ordinary: Horace Miner, “Body Ritual Among the Nacirema” and Viktor Shklovsky on “defamiliarization Sophie Strand is a writer based in the Hudson Valley who focuses on the intersection of spirituality, storytelling, and ecology. Her poems and essays have appeared in numerous projects and publications, including Spirituality & Health, Atmos, Braided Way, and Art PAPERS. She is the author of The Flowering Wand, The Madonna Secret, and The Body Is a Doorway as well as the creator of the popular Substack “Make Me Good Soil.”  You can follow her work on Instagram (at) cosmogyny Henry Kramer is a scholar, educator, and artist exploring wonder, imagination, and our relationship with the more-than-human world. Henry teaches in the Program in Religion at CUNY Hunter and is Academic Dean of the Strother School of Radical Attention, where his Radical Imagination course was featured on the New York Times’ Hard Fork. Henry is also a ritual and immersive theater designer, songwriter, storyteller, and (most recently) a bit of a puppeteer. 00:00 Andrea Sets the Stage 00:33 Meet Host Henry 02:14 Why This Episode Matters 05:41 Henry Introduces Sophie 09:43 Sophie on Being a Lover 10:31 Re Enchantment and Mind 12:15 Symbiosis and Selfhood 14:23 What Is Consciousness 18:35 Myth Archetypes and Reality 25:29 Language Labels and Weirdness 27:37 Conspiracy and Ontological Shock 34:13 Species Humility and Long Story 38:31 Crab Universe Joke 38:53 Disorientation Teaching Tactic 39:53 Nacirema Defamiliarization 42:12 Taliesin and Shapeshifting 45:44 Spiderweb Mind Ecology 46:55 Imitation Builds Empathy 48:52 Against Anthropomorphize 52:36 Utility Addiction and Mushrooms 56:28 Inner Biodiversity and Stories 01:00:47 Panpsychism Resurgence 01:04:43 Hard Problem of Consciousness 01:07:47 Trickster Ending Farewell Support the show Buy Holding Paradox: The Navigational Approach to Mind and Consciousness by Andrea Hiott Sign up for Making Ways newsletter and projects. Please rate and review with love. YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, Substack.