Mountain & Prairie with Ed Roberson

Riverhorse Nakadate is a writer, Patagonia ambassador, conservationist, and canoe-paddling, fly-fishing, bird-loving, self-described tree hugger. He's also the author of the book "Water Lines: A Life on Marshes, Rivers, Seas and in the Rain." Riverhorse and I have been trading emails for years, so it was a real treat to finally meet in person when he came through Boulder on his book tour. He's one of the warmest people I've met in a long time; and I felt like I was chatting with an old friend. This conversation also marks the launch of something new: M&P Reads, the Mountain & Prairie book club. The idea is simple: I sit down with the author of a book I love, we have our normal podcast conversation, and then I ask them a few questions sent in by readers like you. I couldn't think of a better guest to kick things off. Riverhorse was born in Texas to a teenage mom who went on to practice medicine, become a mountain climber, and live as an off-the-grid wild woman. At age five he was adopted by his father, a Stanford literature PhD who took classes from Wallace Stegner. Summers at the family's fishing cabin on the Oregon coast turned him into a surfer, and his writing eventually took him to the University of Iowa, then to a decade as a staff writer for Surfing magazine, and later to the pages of The Flyfish Journal. His films Love and Water and Northern Light, which documents his 200-mile paddle to fight a proposed copper mine in Minnesota's Boundary Waters and later aired on PBS, brought his voice to a much wider audience. Water Lines gathers stories from a lifetime spent on Texas salt marshes, rivers, oceans, and wilderness lakes, illustrated with 24 beautiful paintings based on Riverhorse's own photos. Fly fishing runs through the book, but as Riverhorse says, it's just the vehicle. "Water Lines" is really about love, community, family, and standing up for the wild places and people you care about. Riverhorse and I talked about how the book came together, from his stacks of journals to the art to the long and winding editing process with Patagonia. We talked about his time at the University of Iowa playing water polo, how he stays calm when a flood is barreling down the Black Canyon of the Gunnison, and how being a lifelong pacifist fits together with being willing to fight for what you love. We discussed his mom, his take on news and social media, his work to protect the Boundary Waters, the dangerous shark-finning story he reported along the Rio Grande, and his friendships with Andrew Luck, JT Van Zandt, and Alvin Dedeaux. We also talked a lot about books, including John Muir's lesser-known "A Thousand-Mile Walk to the Gulf." Then we turned to your questions, covering which river Riverhorse would paddle to recreate Goodbye to a River, whether he wrote the book with the fly fishing crowd in mind, and how everyday people can treat wilderness as a necessity rather than a luxury. This was such a fun one, and be sure to click through to the episode notes to grab a copy of "Water Lines." Enjoy! --- Riverhorse Nakadate Water Lines: A Life on Marshes, Rivers, Seas and in the Rain Full episode notes and links: https://mountainandprairie.com/riverhorse-nakadate --- THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Mountain & Prairie is listener supported via Patreon, and brought to you with support from the Colorado Cattlemen's Agricultural Land Trust, Patagonia Books, the Mighty Arrow Family Foundation for their generous sponsorship. --- TOPICS DISCUSSED: 0:00 - Introducing Riverhorse Nakadate and highlighting M&P's new book club 7:07 - A deep love for books (and for Ed!) 9:02 - The book's artwork 10:59 - Journaling and Iowa 12:51 - Surfing phase 16:07 - Chill in the flood 18:01 - A wild woman 20:31 - Pranks 22:29 - Mindfulness 26:53 - Locals only 28:45 - Holding your ground 29:53 - News sources 32:26 - Yvon admiration 35:40 - Boundary Waters 37:11 - Tony 40:56 - Not a fly fishing book 44:43 - No fear (or maybe a little) 48:10 - Andrew Locke 50:41 - Kind humans 55:56 - Book club questions 1:02:37 - Book talk 1:04:52 - Opening a gift on-air 1:09:14 - The (long) path to the book 1:14:57 - Book club Q's (from Italy!) 1:18:12 - Wrapping up --- ABOUT MOUNTAIN & PRAIRIE: Mountain & Prairie - All Episodes Mountain & Prairie Shop Mountain & Prairie on Instagram Upcoming Events About Ed Roberson Leave a Review on Apple Podcasts

Olivia Amber is a professional ultrarunner, climber, and adventurer, and a North Face sponsored athlete based in Bishop, California. I met Olivia at The Rut Mountain Runs in Big Sky, where she was on a public lands panel I moderated. She was also there to talk about her biggest project to date: Norman's 13. Norman's 13 is a route, a link-up of all thirteen of the Sierra's 14,000-foot peaks. It's more than 100 miles with over 40,000 feet of climbing, much of it exposed, off-trail, fifth-class scrambling. Last September, Olivia did the whole thing in one non-stop push, finishing in about 89 hours and becoming the first woman to complete it. The North Face made a short film about that effort, also called "Norman's 13," and I'll link to it in the show notes. And earlier this summer, Olivia and her friend and fellow North Face athlete Erika Flowers set the fastest known time on Granite Peak, the highest point in Montana. Olivia grew up in a tiny village in the woods of northern Wisconsin, the daughter of two schoolteachers who spent their summers road-tripping around the country with Olivia and her older sister. She went on to become an All-American Nordic skier at Colby College, and after graduation she made the hard decision to not pursue pro skiing. Instead, she began working in the corporate world in San Francisco, where the Bay Area trail running community pulled her in and she began to make a name for herself in the world of ultrarunning. Along the way she has dealt with serious health challenges, including a diagnosis of stage four endometriosis, which she speaks about openly and honestly. In this conversation, we talk about her upbringing and her college years, and about her idea that choosing to suffer is a privilege, because she has become acquainted with the kind of suffering you don't choose. We get into how she thinks about risk and ego on technical terrain, what she looks for in a mountain adventure partner, her upcoming trip to Bhutan for the Snowman Race, and the Wallace Stegner book she has reread more than any other. As you can probably tell by now Olivia is a hardcore athlete, but she's also incredibly humble, down-to-earth and funny– the exact kind of person I love talking to on the podcast. There's a link to "Norman's 13" in the show notes, and you should absolutely watch it. --- Olivia Amber "Norman's 13" film Full episode notes and links: https://mountainandprairie.com/olivia-amber --- THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Mountain & Prairie is listener supported via Patreon, and brought to you with support from the Colorado Cattlemen's Agricultural Land Trust, MIRASOL: Looking at the Sun, Patagonia Books, the Rye Resurgence Project for their generous sponsorship. --- TOPICS DISCUSSED: 0:00 - Introducing Olivia Amber and highlighting MIRASOL 6:42 - Growing up in Wisconsin 8:40 - Congregating at the local school 11:20 - Endurance sports activated 13:39 - Finding passion in difficulty 15:30 - Olivia in high school and college 20:21 - D1 22:13 - All-American designation 25:13 - Moving away from professional skiing 27:34 - Athletics + corporate world 29:48 - San Francisco running community 32:58 - Going hard core 35:06 - Health scares 39:39 - The privilege of elective suffering 45:07 - The North Face and Norman's 13 51:26 - Not afraid 57:24 - Credit roll 59:50 - What to look for in an adventure partner 1:02:47 - Upcoming projects 1:03:56 - Book recs 1:05:37 - Wrapping up --- ABOUT MOUNTAIN & PRAIRIE: Mountain & Prairie - All Episodes Mountain & Prairie Shop Mountain & Prairie on Instagram Upcoming Events About Ed Roberson Leave a Review on Apple Podcasts

Dan Flores is back for another visit on the podcast. If you're a fan of the history of the American West, then Dan is no stranger—he's the author of many of my favorite books, including American Serengeti, Coyote America, and Wild New World. Most recently, he wrapped up a 42-episode series with the MeatEater network called The American West with Dan Flores, covering everything from bison and wolves to the origins of our public lands and what it means to belong to a place. It's the closest most of us will get to sitting in one of Dan's university classes, and I can't recommend it highly enough. Dan is Professor spent much of his academic career at the University of Montana, but he's always been less interested in the Old West of cattle drives and gunfights than in what he calls the natural West—the landscapes, animals, Native people, and ideas that make this region unlike anywhere else. He grew up in Louisiana, a place with almost no public land, and spent the 1970s looking for a foothold in the real West. He found three: the canyon country outside Lubbock, Montana's Bitterroot Valley, and the Galisteo Valley south of Santa Fe, where he and his wife, Dr. Sara Dant, live today. In each place, he dug in, learned the country, and went to work restoring it. As expected, we covered a ton in this episode: We started with the story behind The American West series and how a decades-long friendship with Steven Rinella finally turned into 42 episodes. We discussed the biggest epiphany Dan had while making it—that for those of us living here now, the public lands matter far more than the frontier ever did. Dan traces the origins of public lands back to George Perkins Marsh, a wildly influential public intellectual most of us have never heard of, and forward through John Wesley Powell, the first forest reserves, and the end of homesteading in the 1930s. We dug into Theodore Roosevelt's transformation from a young man who rushed to Dakota Territory to kill a buffalo before they were all gone into a president willing to break with his own Gilded Age class to protect the landscapes and wildlife he loved. We also talked about repeat photography and the staggering disappearance of the glaciers in Glacier National Park, the willful destruction of Western wildlife, bioregionalism and rewilding on a scale that any of us can manage, and a few book recommendations to round it out. Be sure to check the episode notes for links to everything we discussed, including the full American West series and the new 2026 edition of Coyote America. Dan is as generous with his time and wisdom as anyone I know, and I always come away from these conversations with a longer reading list and a better understanding of this place. --- The American West with Dan Flores podcast Dan's Books Full episode notes and links: https://mountainandprairie.com/dan-flores-2 --- THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Mountain & Prairie is listener supported via Patreon, and brought to you with support from the Colorado Cattlemen's Agricultural Land Trust, MIRASOL: Looking at the Sun, Patagonia Books, the Rye Resurgence Project for their generous sponsorship. --- TOPICS DISCUSSED: 0:00 - Introducing Dan Flores and highlighting the Rye Resurgence Project 7:24 - From writing to audio 13:10 - The natural West 20:01 - Aha! moments 28:41 - George Perkins Marsh 44:43 - Animal eradication 52:31 - Teddy Roosevelt deep-dive 1:05:18 - Place 1:13:56 - Rewilding the Bitterroot 1:20:12 - Rewilding on your own scale 1:23:06 - Book recs and wrapping up --- ABOUT MOUNTAIN & PRAIRIE: Mountain & Prairie - All Episodes Mountain & Prairie Shop Mountain & Prairie on Instagram Upcoming Events About Ed Roberson Leave a Review on Apple Podcasts

Fitz Cahall is the creator of the legendary outdoor podcast The Dirtbag Diaries, co-founder of the creative agency Duct Tape Then Beer, and author of the excellent book States of Adventure. But most recently, he's gone from prolific creative mind to public lands advocate with the launch of Save Public Lands, a campaign that gives public land lovers of all stripes, from climbers to hunters, a way to go on the offense against the ongoing attacks on our public lands. The goal is a million signatures on a short letter with three clear demands: no more sell-offs, no more giveaways to foreign companies and billionaires, and no more backroom deals. Those signatures get delivered to DC and statehouses around Public Lands Day on September 26th. Partners include Outdoor Alliance, Backcountry Hunters & Anglers, MeatEater, The Conservation Alliance, and The Wilderness Society. Fitz got his start in the mid-2000s scraping by as a freelance journalist, a job he refers to as "naked subsistence hunting." In 2007, he took a few stories that hadn't sold and turned them into a podcast. He emailed it to 30 friends. The next day 30 people had listened, then 300, then 3,000. Nearly 20 years later, he and his wife and creative partner Becca have built Duct Tape Then Beer into a story studio behind award-winning films and podcasts, all guided by one rule: the work has to strengthen people's connections to the natural world and to each other. We talked about how Save Public Lands came together, why Fitz chose offense over defense, and how a coalition this politically diverse—hunters, climbers, skiers, veterans, and legacy conservation groups—managed to find common ground and rally around a shared goal. Then we lightened it up and got into his creative life, including why he treats creative work like a band rather than a solo act, how he and Becca avoided chasing money for its own sake, what he does when his enthusiasm dips, and why he believes doubt and optimism are far more powerful together than either one alone. It's worth noting I consider Fitz a role model in a lot of ways, and I don't think Mountain & Prairie would exist without his example. I've been listening to The Dirtbag Diaries since the days when you had to download podcasts onto your computer, load them onto your iPod, then plug the iPod into the tape deck in your truck to listen. That's exactly what I was doing back then, driving around trying to sell real estate, and those stories cracked open a whole way of living and working that I didn't know was available to me. So thank you, Fitz, for all of it. There's a link below to sign the letter. It takes about 20 seconds, so there's no excuse not to do it. I loved this conversation, and I hope you enjoy. --- SAVE PUBLIC LANDS – Sign the Letter! The Dirtbag Diaries Duct Tape Then Beer Full episode notes and links: https://mountainandprairie.com/fitz-cahall --- THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Mountain & Prairie is listener supported via Patreon, and brought to you with support from the Colorado Cattlemen's Agricultural Land Trust, MIRASOL: Looking at the Sun, Patagonia Books, the Rye Resurgence Project for their generous sponsorship. --- TOPICS DISCUSSED: 0:00 - Introducing Fitz Cahall and highlighting Patagonia books 7:45 - Jumping right into Save Public Lands 13:22 - Going on the offense 18:05 - Partnerships for public lands 22:30 - The money 29:32 - How people can help 32:40 - And how orgs can help 33:56 - Fitz's creative life 39:42 - Evolving as a collaborator 43:12 - States of Adventure 46:26 - Keeping values intact 50:22 - Dealing with the dips 54:32 - Book recs 59:48 - Wrapping up --- ABOUT MOUNTAIN & PRAIRIE: Mountain & Prairie - All Episodes Mountain & Prairie Shop Mountain & Prairie on Instagram Upcoming Events About Ed Roberson Leave a Review on Apple Podcasts

T.A. Barron—known as Tom to his friends—is a renowned author, a lifelong conservationist, and someone whose work sits at the intersection of two subjects that are near and dear to my heart: books and the natural world. Tom has written more than 30 books, including the internationally bestselling Merlin Saga, and his newest book, "Naming Nature: A Cabinet of Natural Curiosities for Word Lovers," gave us the perfect excuse to finally sit down together. It's a beautiful, fascinating exploration of the stories behind the names we give to plants, animals, and other parts of the natural world, and I think it's a must-read for anyone who loves nature and loves words—which probably describes most people listening to this podcast. Tom is also a deeply committed conservationist who has spent decades supporting and leading conservation efforts, so as you can imagine, we had plenty to talk about. Tom grew up first in New England and then on a ranch north of Colorado Springs, where watching the surrounding landscape disappear to development helped shape his conservation ethic at an early age. After Princeton and a Rhodes Scholarship at Oxford, he initially pursued a career in business in New York City, while waking up at four or four-thirty every morning to write before work. Eventually he realized that those early-morning hours were the happiest part of his day, so despite having already endured plenty of rejection as a young writer, he left a successful business career, moved back to Colorado, and gave writing another shot. More than 30 books later, I think it's safe to say that gamble worked out. Along the way, conservation has remained a central part of his life, including his longtime involvement with The Wilderness Society and many other conservation organizations and initiatives. Tom and I talked about his adventurous parents, his childhood in Colorado, his spectacular early failures as a writer, and the decision to walk away from a successful career to pursue the work that made him feel most alive. We talked about mortality and the importance of using our limited time well; managing the constant barrage of news and social media; optimism, wonder, and our shared love of the natural world; and how Tom became so deeply involved in conservation. And, of course, we dug into "Naming Nature" and some of the wonderfully strange stories behind names like hellbender, sarcastic fringehead, narwhal, praying mantis, elephant, and even the Yeti. We also talked about why names matter, how paying closer attention can lead to caring, and how caring can ultimately lead to conservation. This was a fun, wide-ranging conversation with a thoughtful and endlessly curious guy, and I think you'll really enjoy it. --- T.A. Barron Naming Nature: A Cabinet of Natural Curiosities for Word Lovers Full episode notes and links: https://mountainandprairie.com/ta-barron --- THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Mountain & Prairie is listener supported via Patreon, and brought to you with support from the Colorado Cattlemen's Agricultural Land Trust, MIRASOL: Looking at the Sun, Patagonia Books, the Rye Resurgence Project for their generous sponsorship. --- TOPICS DISCUSSED: 0:00 - Introducing T.A. Barron and highlighting the Rye Resurgence Project 6:49 - Growing up 12:47 - Tom's early writing career 16:46 - Oxford days to first novel 21:53 - The work that goes into rejection 24:56 - Plan B, 10 years later 29:18 - Keeping mortality in mind 35:10 - Good and bad tools 37:51 - His first book on the shelf 41:21 - Getting into conservation 48:02 - The new book 53:52 - Where the word "sarcastic" came from 56:31 - And a few more fun word examples 1:02:52 - The capacity to name 1:04:19 - The Yeti 1:07:38 - Cultivating stewardship 1:11:11 - Book recs 1:15:33 - Wrapping up (and a reading of Elephant) --- ABOUT MOUNTAIN & PRAIRIE: Mountain & Prairie - All Episodes Mountain & Prairie Shop Mountain & Prairie on Instagram Upcoming Events About Ed Roberson Leave a Review on Apple Podcasts