‘You Don’t Take Dictation. You Find the Truth.’

Note: This episode contains descriptions of suicide and sexual violence. Cheryl phones Amy Tan at her home overlooking Sausalito Bay in California. The two compare notes on family, grief and the long arc of resilience. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and Amazon Music. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.