The ABMP Podcast | Speaking With the Massage & Bodywork Profession

Thinking about renting your first treatment room? In this episode of Fully Booked, Elicia Crook shares practical advice on finding the right space, understanding rental costs, and knowing what to ask before signing an agreement. Host: Elicia Crook is a business coach and mentor for massage therapists, sharing the tactics she used to create her business success over 16 years. She is a diploma-qualified remedial massage therapist, using modalities such as Bowen and craniosacral therapy, and has a Cert IV in Workplace Training and Assessment, which she used while teaching massage for several years. Through her career and business experience, Crook discovered who she needed to be and what is required to run a deeply satisfying massage business. Now she takes the Fully Booked Without Burnout blueprint to other therapists around the world to create more success and passion. For more information, visit https://healthleaderco.com/ Resources: For more info on Health Leader Mastery - check out https://healthleaderco.com/mastery Lead Ads Training: https://yourpractice.pro/lead-ads-fast "Making the Leap to a Full-Time Business" https://www.abmp.com/learn/course/making-leap-full-time-business-part-1-mindset Sponsor: GlossGenius The more your business grows, the more time you can spend managing schedules, payments, marketing, and follow-ups instead of focusing on your clients. GlossGenius helps simplify it all with tools for booking, payments, staff management, marketing, and client communication, all in one place. More than 120,000 health and wellness businesses use GlossGenius to save time, grow revenue, and keep clients coming back. Use code ABMP at glossgenius.com for 50 percent off your first two months of premium plans.

Join Kristin Coverly and guests Rachelle Clauson, Troy Lavigne, Til Luchau, Nicole Trombley, and Ruth Werner as they explore what practitioners need to know about pain, from fascia to chronic pain, and how shifting our perspectives can transform the way we approach client care. Resources: ABMP CE Summit: https://www.abmp.com/summit ABMP Education Center: https://www.abmp.com/learn/ ABMP CE Course, "Fascia Fundamentals" https://www.abmp.com/learn/course/fascia-fundamentals-what-every-massage-therapist-needs-know ABMP CE Course, "Understanding Fascia's Role in Low-Back Pain" https://www.abmp.com/learn/course/understanding-fascias-role-low-back-pain Host: Kristin Coverly, LMT is a massage therapist, educator, and the director of professional education at ABMP. She loves creating continuing education courses, events, and resources to support massage therapists and bodyworkers as they enhance their lives and practices. Contact her at [email protected]. Guests: Troy Lavigne is a massage therapist and pain educator. He is the creator of the Sensory Approach to Manual Therapy Podcast, a multitude of neuroscience based continuing education courses, and author of the book "Pain! The Other 4-Letter Word." Learn more at https://www.troylavigne.com/ Nicole Trombley: As a massage educator, Nicole draws on her passion for human biology to help therapists better understand the tissues under their hands. She owns and operates Equilibrio Massage in San Diego, CA, where she has specialized in massage for pregnancy and postpartum since 2004. Rachelle Clauson: Rachelle loves teaching therapists about the structural organization and beauty of the human fascial system. She serves as the Director of Creative and Administrative Affairs for the Fascial Net Plastination Project, and owns Flourish Bodywork, her private practice where she has been offering hands-on bodywork in San Diego, CA, since 2003. Til Luchau is the author of the Advanced Myofascial Techniques series of books and trainings and the lead instructor at Advanced-Trainings.com. A Certified Advanced Rolfer, Luchau was on the faculty of the Dr. Ida Rolf Institute for 20 years, and his regular Myofascial Techniques and Somatic Edge columns have been featured in Massage & Bodywork magazine since 2009. He and Whitney Lowe cohost the Thinking Practitioner podcast. Learn more at www.advanced-trainings.com. Ruth Werner is a former massage therapist, a writer, and an NCBTMB-approved continuing education provider. She wrote A Massage Therapist's Guide to Pathology, now in its seventh edition, which is used in massage schools worldwide. Werner is also a long-time Massage & Bodywork columnist, most notably of the Pathology Perspectives column. Werner is also ABMP's partner on Pocket Pathology, a web-based app and quick reference program that puts key information for nearly 200 common pathologies at your fingertips. Werner's books are available at www.booksofdiscovery.com. And more information about her is available at www.ruthwerner.com. Sponsors: Anatomy Trains is a global leader in online anatomy education and also provides in-classroom certification programs for structural integration in the US, Canada, Australia, Europe, Japan, and China, as well as fresh-tissue cadaver dissection labs and weekend courses. The work of Anatomy Trains originated with founder Tom Myers, who mapped the human body into 13 myofascial meridians in his original book, currently in its fourth edition and translated into 12 languages. The principles of Anatomy Trains are used by osteopaths, physical therapists, bodyworkers, massage therapists, personal trainers, yoga, Pilates, Gyrotonics, and other body-minded manual therapists and movement professionals. Anatomy Trains inspires these practitioners to work with holistic anatomy in treating system-wide patterns to provide improved client outcomes in terms of structure and function. Website: anatomytrains.com Email: [email protected] Facebook: facebook.com/AnatomyTrains Instagram: www.instagram.com/anatomytrainsofficial YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2g6TOEFrX4b-CigknssKHA Precision Neuromuscular Therapy seminars (www.pnmt.org) have been teaching high-quality seminars for more than 20 years. Doug Nelson and the PNMT teaching staff help you to practice with the confidence and creativity that comes from deep understanding, rather than the adherence to one treatment approach or technique. Find our seminar schedule at pnmt.org/seminar-schedule with over 60 weekends of seminars across the country. Or meet us online in the PNMT Portal, our online gateway with access to over 500 videos, 37 NCBTMB CEs, our Discovery Series webinars, one-on-one mentoring, and much, much more! All for the low yearly cost of $167.50. Learn more at pnmt.thinkific.com/courses/pnmtportal! Follow us on social media: @precisionnmt on Instagram or at Precision Neuromuscular Therapy Seminars on Facebook. Upledger CranioSacral Therapy addresses deep restrictions, supports neurological and fascial systems, and enhances whole-body function—by working with the body's natural healing processes. For over forty years, Upledger Institute International has led the field of CranioSacral Therapy—setting the global standard for education and clinical application. With trained therapists in more than 120 countries, CST continues to evolve through ongoing clinical experience and alignment with current scientific understanding. CST integrates seamlessly into any manual therapy practice and supports common to complex and chronic conditions—orthopedic, neurological, pediatric, geriatric, and beyond. Learn from our International Teaching Team—experienced clinicians who help you develop your skills, expand your clinical reasoning, and achieve greater clinical outcomes. Begin your training for as little as one hundred dollars a month. Find a class near you at upledger.com/courses or call 800-233-5880, extension 2—and begin your CranioSacral Therapy journey with the leaders who continue to shape the profession. Website: upledger.com/courses Email: [email protected] Phone: 800-233-5880 Ext 2 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/upledger.institute Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/upledger_institute_intl/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSIFELbP6Jsp55cb9puZigQ

A client with a complicated health history, including bilateral mastectomies and lymph node removal, wants to receive cupping. Her massage therapist declines, citing education that suggests it may not be a good idea. The client gets cupping elsewhere and then asks again. In this episode of I Have a Client Who . . ., Ruth talks about lymphedema, cupping, and maintaining professional boundaries when a client wants something the massage therapist believes is not in their best interest. What do you do when your client says yes, but you say no, no, no? Resources: Aboushanab, T.S. and AlSanad, S. (2018) "Cupping Therapy: An Overview from a Modern Medicine Perspective," Journal of Acupuncture and Meridian Studies, 11(3), pp. 83–87. Available at: https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jams.2018.02.001. Cupping (no date) NCCIH. Available at: https://www.nccih.nih.gov/health/cupping (Accessed: October 5, 2026). Lymphedema and Flare-Ups: How To Reduce Your Risk (no date). Available at: https://www.breastcancer.org/treatment-side-effects/lymphedema/reducing-risk (Accessed: October 5, 2026). Sina, R.E. and Bokhari, A.A. (2023) "Cupping Therapy," StatPearls [Internet]. StatPearls Publishing. Available at: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/books/NBK538253/ (Accessed: October 5, 2026). Host Bio: Ruth Werner is a former massage therapist, a writer, and an NCBTMB-approved continuing education provider. She wrote A Massage Therapist's Guide to Pathology, now in its seventh edition, which is used in massage schools worldwide. Werner is also a long-time Massage & Bodywork columnist, most notably of the Pathology Perspectives column. Werner is also ABMP's partner on Pocket Pathology, a web-based app and quick reference program that puts key information for nearly 200 common pathologies at your fingertips. Werner's books are available at www.booksofdiscovery.com. And more information about her is available at www.ruthwerner.com. Sponsors: Anatomy Trains is a global leader in online anatomy education and also provides in-classroom certification programs for structural integration in the US, Canada, Australia, Europe, Japan, and China, as well as fresh-tissue cadaver dissection labs and weekend courses. The work of Anatomy Trains originated with founder Tom Myers, who mapped the human body into 13 myofascial meridians in his original book, currently in its fourth edition and translated into 12 languages. The principles of Anatomy Trains are used by osteopaths, physical therapists, bodyworkers, massage therapists, personal trainers, yoga, Pilates, Gyrotonics, and other body-minded manual therapists and movement professionals. Anatomy Trains inspires these practitioners to work with holistic anatomy in treating system-wide patterns to provide improved client outcomes in terms of structure and function. Website: anatomytrains.com Email: [email protected] Facebook: facebook.com/AnatomyTrains Instagram: www.instagram.com/anatomytrainsofficial YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2g6TOEFrX4b-CigknssKHA Precision Neuromuscular Therapy seminars (www.pnmt.org) have been teaching high-quality seminars for more than 20 years. Doug Nelson and the PNMT teaching staff help you to practice with the confidence and creativity that comes from deep understanding, rather than the adherence to one treatment approach or technique. Find our seminar schedule at pnmt.org/seminar-schedule with over 60 weekends of seminars across the country. Or meet us online in the PNMT Portal, our online gateway with access to over 500 videos, 37 NCBTMB CEs, our Discovery Series webinars, one-on-one mentoring, and much, much more! All for the low yearly cost of $167.50. Learn more at pnmt.thinkific.com/courses/pnmtportal! Follow us on social media: @precisionnmt on Instagram or at Precision Neuromuscular Therapy Seminars on Facebook. Upledger CranioSacral Therapy addresses deep restrictions, supports neurological and fascial systems, and enhances whole-body function—by working with the body's natural healing processes. For over forty years, Upledger Institute International has led the field of CranioSacral Therapy—setting the global standard for education and clinical application. With trained therapists in more than 120 countries, CST continues to evolve through ongoing clinical experience and alignment with current scientific understanding. CST integrates seamlessly into any manual therapy practice and supports common to complex and chronic conditions—orthopedic, neurological, pediatric, geriatric, and beyond. Learn from our International Teaching Team—experienced clinicians who help you develop your skills, expand your clinical reasoning, and achieve greater clinical outcomes. Begin your training for as little as one hundred dollars a month. Find a class near you at upledger.com/courses or call 800-233-5880, extension 2—and begin your CranioSacral Therapy journey with the leaders who continue to shape the profession. Website: upledger.com/courses Email: [email protected] Phone: 800-233-5880 Ext 2 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/upledger.institute Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/upledger_institute_intl/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSIFELbP6Jsp55cb9puZigQ

Sometimes we're so focused on finding the next new thing that we overlook what we already have. In this episode of Fully Booked, Elicia explores how reflection, existing skills, and available resources can create meaningful change in your business. Sometimes moving forward isn't about doing more but making better use of what's already in your hands. Host: Elicia Crook is a business coach and mentor for massage therapists, sharing the tactics she used to create her business success over 16 years. She is a diploma-qualified remedial massage therapist, using modalities such as Bowen and craniosacral therapy, and has a Cert IV in Workplace Training and Assessment, which she used while teaching massage for several years. Through her career and business experience, Crook discovered who she needed to be and what is required to run a deeply satisfying massage business. Now she takes the Fully Booked Without Burnout blueprint to other therapists around the world to create more success and passion. For more information, visit https://healthleaderco.com/ Resources: For more info on Health Leader Mastery - check out https://healthleaderco.com/mastery Lead Ads Training: https://yourpractice.pro/lead-ads-fast "Making the Leap to a Full-Time Business" https://www.abmp.com/learn/course/making-leap-full-time-business-part-1-mindset Sponsor: GlossGenius The more your business grows, the more time you can spend managing schedules, payments, marketing, and follow-ups instead of focusing on your clients. GlossGenius helps simplify it all with tools for booking, payments, staff management, marketing, and client communication, all in one place. More than 120,000 health and wellness businesses use GlossGenius to save time, grow revenue, and keep clients coming back. Use code ABMP at glossgenius.com for 50 percent off your first two months of premium plans.

In bodywork, recognizing when a client is stuck in a pain pattern because they don't know what they don't know can be an important part of working effectively. But what happens when a client is aware they're stuck and, consciously or not, is comfortable staying there, even if it means continuing to experience pain? Host Bio: Contact Allison Denney: [email protected] Allison's website: www.rebelmassage.com Allison Denney is a certified massage therapist and certified YouTuber. You can find her massage tutorials at YouTube.com/RebelMassage. She is also passionate about creating products that are kind, simple, and productive for therapists to use in their practices. Her products, along with access to her blog and CE opportunities, can be found at rebelmassage.com. About our Sponsors: Rebel Massage Therapist: My name is Allison. And I am not your typical massage therapist. After 20 years of experience and thousands of clients, I have learned that massage therapy is SO MUCH more than a relaxing experience at a spa. I see soft tissue as more than merely a physical element but a deeply complex, neurologically driven part of who you are. I use this knowledge to work WITH you—not ON you—to create change that works. This is the basis of my approach. As a massage therapist, I have worked in almost every capacity, including massage clinics, physical therapy clinics, chiropractor offices, spas, private practice, and teaching. I have learned incredible techniques and strategies from each of my experiences. In my 20 years as a massage therapist, I have never stopped growing. I currently have a private practice based out of Long Beach, California, where I also teach continuing education classes and occasionally work on my kids. If they're good. website: www.rebelmassage.com FB: facebook.com/RebelMassage IG: instagram.com/rebelmassagetherapist YouTube: youtube.com/c/RebelMassage email: [email protected] Anatomy Trains is a global leader in online anatomy education and also provides in-classroom certification programs for structural integration in the US, Canada, Australia, Europe, Japan, and China, as well as fresh-tissue cadaver dissection labs and weekend courses. The work of Anatomy Trains originated with founder Tom Myers, who mapped the human body into 13 myofascial meridians in his original book, currently in its fourth edition and translated into 12 languages. The principles of Anatomy Trains are used by osteopaths, physical therapists, bodyworkers, massage therapists, personal trainers, yoga, Pilates, Gyrotonics, and other body-minded manual therapists and movement professionals. Anatomy Trains inspires these practitioners to work with holistic anatomy in treating system-wide patterns to provide improved client outcomes in terms of structure and function. Website: anatomytrains.com Email: [email protected] Facebook: facebook.com/AnatomyTrains Instagram: www.instagram.com/anatomytrainsofficial YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2g6TOEFrX4b-CigknssKHA Precision Neuromuscular Therapy seminars (www.pnmt.org) have been teaching high-quality seminars for more than 20 years. Doug Nelson and the PNMT teaching staff help you to practice with the confidence and creativity that comes from deep understanding, rather than the adherence to one treatment approach or technique. Find our seminar schedule at pnmt.org/seminar-schedule with over 60 weekends of seminars across the country. Or meet us online in the PNMT Portal, our online gateway with access to over 500 videos, 37 NCBTMB CEs, our Discovery Series webinars, one-on-one mentoring, and much, much more! All for the low yearly cost of $167.50. Learn more at pnmt.thinkific.com/courses/pnmtportal! Follow us on social media: @precisionnmt on Instagram or at Precision Neuromuscular Therapy Seminars on Facebook. At Heights Wellness Retreat, we believe every person is an unstoppable force, whether navigating daily demands, pursuing goals, or striving to be their best. This drives everything we do. We go beyond traditional spa services by creating a purpose-driven environment where wellness professionals are empowered, valued, and positioned to grow. With steady clientele, support, and a wellness-forward culture, Heights Wellness Retreat is where therapists build meaningful, sustainable careers while shaping the future of the wellness industry. www.massageheightscareers.careerplug.com/jobs www.heightswellnessretreats.com https://www.instagram.com/heightswellnessretreat/ https://www.facebook.com/heightswellnessretreat/ Save your hands for the smaller structures and start getting your clients underfoot! At the Center for Barefoot Massage, we teach you how to enhance your pressure using gravity and physics and help your clients recover from persistent pain through nerd-level anatomical attention to detail—we just happen to use our feet to do it all! From the slow, down-regulating glides of our FasciAshi Fundamentals strokes to the proprioceptive "pattern-interrupts" of our Barefoot Matwork techniques and the resisted movements from our Stretch Therapy class, we offer a complete suite of evidence-based tools for deep, myofascial Ashiatsu Barefoot Massage—we nicknamed our approach "FasciAshi." Worried about your body size in relation to your clients? Our innovation—the suspended Ashi-strap—allows a more diverse population of massage therapists to regulate and vector their weight and pressure distribution with clinical precision, making deep work effortless on a variety of client bodies. At the Center for Barefoot Massage, we believe the future of massage is afoot! Find when and where our CE classes are happening next at centerforbarefootmassage.com.