American Scoundrel, Roy Cohn’s Dark Journey from Joe McCarthy to Donald Trump

Kai Bird joins the Bill Press Pod to discuss his biography of Roy Cohn, written with Susan Goldmark, and why Cohn still matters decades after his death. The conversation traces the direct line from McCarthy-era smear tactics to Donald Trump’s politics, showing how Cohn’s playbook shaped Trump’s approach to loyalty, retaliation, media attacks, and personal branding. Bird explains how a once-dismissed Washington fixer became a central figure in understanding the Trump era, and why Cohn’s influence still haunts American political life. Bird argues that Donald Trump learned his core political instincts from Cohn, including insulting opponents, suing critics, and never admitting defeat The book’s central thesis: Roy Cohn is the direct line connecting Joe McCarthy to Donald Trump Bird describes Cohn as ruthlessly intelligent, socially charming, and capable of winning over New York’s elite despite his reputation The origin story of Trump and Cohn’s relationship: their 1973 meeting at Le Club in Manhattan Cohn advised Trump to fight a housing discrimination case aggressively, launching a long relationship that helped Trump with zoning, tax abatements, and access to Manhattan power circles Bird and Bill Press compare McCarthy’s rise with Trump’s, including how political allies often avoided confronting them directly The episode highlights several Cohn tactics that Trump later made famous: name-calling, delaying legal cases, counterattacking, and manufacturing “victory” Bird details Cohn’s corruption, including unpaid bills, tax problems, bribery accusations, and the ethically troubling attempt to secure influence through legal work The closing takeaway: Trump’s admiration for Cohn is not just strategic, but personal and enduring You can order your own copy of American Scoundrel, Roy Cohn’s Dark Journey from Joe McCarthy to Donald Trump at Bookshop.org. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.