Ep. 182 - AI Agents Can Pay, But Who's Really Behind Them? | Ft. Pat Kinsel, Founder & CEO, Proof

AI agents are learning how to shop, negotiate and pay. But who is actually authorising them? In this special episode of The Payments Shed Podcast, filmed live at Money20/20 USA 2026 in Las Vegas, we're joined by Pat Kinsel, Founder and CEO of Proof, to explore one of the biggest challenges emerging from agentic commerce: establishing trust in a world where machines increasingly act on behalf of humans. Pat shares his vision for the future of digital identity, exploring why the next generation of commerce will require a fundamentally different approach to verifying who is behind a transaction, what they have authorised and who should be held accountable when things go wrong. The conversation tackles the emerging threat of agent forgery, deepfakes and AI-driven fraud. As autonomous systems become more capable, how can merchants distinguish legitimate agents from malicious actors, and who carries the liability when an agent is compromised or acts outside its authority? We also explore Proof's journey from Notarize to building a broader identity network, including Pat's ambition to create identity infrastructure with the reach and reliability of global payment networks. From reusable digital credentials and banking onboarding to the growing role of open standards, they discuss what it will take to make trusted digital identity a mainstream reality. Looking ahead to 2027, Pat shares his perspective on who could ultimately shape the future of agent identity, whether that's established card networks, technology giants or independent identity providers, and what payments leaders should be preparing for today. Plus, Pat takes on The Payments Shed's legendary Shelf of Shame, challenging an outdated identity verification practice. Payments infrastructure has spent decades solving how money moves. Could the next great challenge be proving who's actually moving it? --- The Payments Shed Podcast is sponsored by Cyclops. Cyclops helps payments companies offer crypto acceptance, stablecoin settlement and payouts through one unified infrastructure platform. Find out more: https://cyclops.finance/ --- The Payments Shed Podcast is sponsored by Salesloft. Salesloft uses agentic AI to turn buyer, conversation, deal and forecast data into clear actions that help revenue teams sell smarter. Find out more: https://www.salesloft.com --- The Payments Shed Podcast is sponsored by Mastercard Open Finance. Mastercard Open Finance enables businesses to use consumer-permissioned financial data to create more connected and personalised financial experiences. Find out more: https://www.mastercard.com/global/en/business/open-finance.html --- The Payments Shed Podcast is partnered with PCN. PCN is a global boutique recruitment agency connecting leading talent and businesses across fintech, cybersecurity, SaaS, e-commerce and Salesforce. Find out more: https://teampcn.com/ --- Disclaimer: Views expressed are those of The Payments Shed Podcast hosts and guests, not their respective employers. Nothing discussed constitutes investment, legal, tax or financial advice.