The Thin Veil with Ezra Lipp

Ashira Darwish is a Palestinian investigative journalist, trauma healer, and former human rights activist whose work explores the relationship between occupation, resistance, trauma, and collective healing. After years working in journalism and advocacy, and following a spinal injury in 2012 that temporarily left her paralyzed, she developed Ashira Active Meditation, a trauma-integration practice rooted in somatic healing, ancestral wisdom, and liberation psychology. I first encountered Ashira as a producer and one of the central voices in the extraordinary documentary Where Olive Trees Weep, alongside Dr. Gabor Maté. The film explores the deep psychological and spiritual wounds carried by Palestinians living under occupation. In this powerful conversation, Ashira reflects on being detained and tortured by Israeli forces, interviewing Palestinian resistance fighters during the Second Intifada, the dignity she associates with Palestinian resistance, and the psychological impact of imprisonment and occupation. We also discuss Gaza, Palestinian prisoners, Western power and colonialism, and what healing can mean when the conditions producing trauma are still ongoing. Through Catharsis Holistic Healing, Ashira now works with Palestinians and other communities affected by genocide, displacement, and intergenerational trauma. Ashira Darwish & Catharsis Holistic Healing Follow Ashira On Instagram Where Olive Trees Weep Film SUMUD Project for Neuro-Medical Care Providing free neurological treatment and rehabilitation to the people of Gaza through dedicated volunteer doctors and specialists. Project Hope - Supporting Families in Gaza ⭐️PLEASE LEAVE A RATING AND REVIEW OF THE SHOW ❤️ SUPPORT THE SHOW LEAVE A ONE-OFF TIP ON KO-FI BECOME A REGULAR SUPPORTER ON PATREON New Subscriber Feature - Leave a voicemail for Ezra and he will get back to you 🇵🇸GET INVOLVED JEWISH VOICE FOR PEACE CONNECTING GAZA 🎙 LISTEN / WATCH / FOLLOW THE THIN VEIL THE THIN VEIL ON ALL PODCAST PLATFORMS THE THIN VEIL ON YOUTUBE THE THIN VEIL ON INSTAGRAM ✍️REACH OUT / SEND FEEDBACK [email protected] 👋 FOLLOW EZRA EZRA ON INSTAGRAM EZRA ON FACEBOOK EZRA'S WEBSITE EZRA ON YOUTUBE 🎵 THEME MUSIC BY MAGIC IN THE OTHER MAGIC IN THE OTHER WEBSITE MAGIC IN THE OTHER ON INSTAGRAM MAGIC IN THE OTHER ON YOUTUBE (00:00) - Coming Up: “You’ll Find the Empaths” (00:30) - Introducing Ashira Darwish (04:21) - What Feels Most Alive Right Now? (09:41) - Hope, Collapse & “The Veil” Coming Off (12:56) - What Resistance Can Look Like (16:00) - Palestine, Empire & Colonialism at Home (22:07) - Gaza, Separation & the Dream of Reaching the Sea (25:18) - Interviewing Palestinian Resistance Fighters (28:06) - “You’ll Find the Empaths” (32:24) - Was October 7 a Mistake? (33:37) - Why Ashira Refuses to Speak for Gaza (36:04) - Palestinian Prisoners & Israeli Detention (42:24) - Ashira’s Own Arrest and Torture (45:41) - Survivor’s Guilt & “Palestinian Mama Loving” (48:22) - Prisoners, Hostages & the Logic of Resistance (50:32) - What Would a Free Palestine Require? (53:02) - Justice, Accountability & What Comes Next (54:37) - Healing, Liberation Psychology & Ashira’s Work (58:11) - Closing Thoughts & Resources ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

For years, Palestinian activist Hamze Awawde worked inside the world of Israeli-Palestinian dialogue organizations, NGOs, international conferences, donor networks, and what he now calls the “industrial-peace complex.” Hamze Awawde Substack I Was The Good Palestinian - Hamze's Essay Hamze on Instagram In this conversation, Hamze offers an insider’s critique of a well-funded system that he argues often substitutes the appearance of dialogue and managing audiences comfort levels for confronting the realities of occupation, dispossession, genocide, and Palestinian political agency. He describes the subtle—and often explicit—pressure placed on Palestinians to moderate their language, accommodate Western/Israeli sensitivities, condemn Hamas before speaking about their own people, and remain within the boundaries of what Western donors and institutions consider acceptable. He also recounts watching Palestinian voices excluded, managed, or replaced when they challenged those boundaries. Hamze also reflects on his own journey from an idealistic teenager growing up amidst the violence of the Second Palestinian Intifada drawn to dialogue and reconciliation, to becoming deeply disillusioned with the institutions in which he spent years working. He speaks about his grandfather, a Palestinian resistance fighter killed before Hamze was born; his family’s experience of occupation and home demolitions; the meaning of resistance; and why he no longer believes human beings are “entitled to hope.” We also discuss what justice might actually look like, the difference between peace and pacification, the limits of “shared grief” without an analysis of power, and what meaningful solidarity with Palestinians asks of people in the West. ⭐️PLEASE LEAVE A RATING AND REVIEW OF THE SHOW ❤️ SUPPORT THE SHOW LEAVE A ONE-OFF TIP ON KO-FI BECOME A REGULAR SUPPORTER ON PATREON 🇵🇸GET INVOLVED JEWISH VOICE FOR PEACE CONNECTING GAZA 🎙 LISTEN / WATCH / FOLLOW THE THIN VEIL THE THIN VEIL ON ALL PODCAST PLATFORMS THE THIN VEIL ON YOUTUBE THE THIN VEIL ON INSTAGRAM ✍️REACH OUT / SEND FEEDBACK [email protected] 👋 FOLLOW EZRA EZRA ON INSTAGRAM EZRA ON FACEBOOK EZRA'S WEBSITE EZRA ON YOUTUBE 🎵 THEME MUSIC BY MAGIC IN THE OTHER MAGIC IN THE OTHER WEBSITE MAGIC IN THE OTHER ON INSTAGRAM MAGIC IN THE OTHER ON YOUTUBE (00:00) - Coming Up (01:06) - Introduction (04:35) - Hamze’s Story: From Resistance to the Peace Industry (07:25) - Inside the Israeli-Palestinian “Peace Industry” (12:13) - When Hamze Began Seeing Through the Illusion (16:15) - Who Funds the Peace Industry? (20:04) - “This Is a Sedation Process” (27:27) - The Language Palestinians Aren’t Allowed to Use (33:29) - How Palestinian Grief Is Used (38:12) - Why Hamze Stayed for 19 Years (43:16) - Breaking With the Peace Industry (47:41) - Following the Money (49:52) - Were the Friendships Ever Real? (54:59) - His Grandfather, Resistance & Sacrifice (59:51) - Is There Still Hope for a Free Palestine? (01:11:11) - What Can People in the West Actually Do? (01:15:37) - Community, Identity & Following the Truth (01:18:16) - Outro ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

In this episode of The Thin Veil, I sit down with critically acclaimed British musician Alexi Murdoch for a wide-ranging conversation about art, activism, Western culture, and the personal and professional costs of speaking in support of Palestine. Alexi reflects on why he has found it increasingly difficult to simply retreat into the creative process while witnessing the genocide in Gaza, and why he ultimately felt compelled to use his platform more directly. He discusses the tension between art as an indirect way of awakening empathy and the urgency of speaking plainly when people are suffering. The conversation also explores Alexi’s 2025 trip to Palestine, what he witnessed in the West Bank, the experience of meeting Palestinians living under occupation, and how that experience changed his understanding of the situation. He also offers many reflections on the broader Western material culture we are living in, and the shallowness this moment is exposing about it. Alexi and I recorded this conversation in March 2026, before the first episode of The Thin Veil was released. I’m rebroadcasting it now because I think the questions we wrestled with then remain deeply relevant—and because many of you who have discovered the show since its earliest episodes may have never heard this conversation. This also felt like an important conversation to re-air in a time when artists stances on this are being increasingly scrutinized and leading to greater consequences. Alexi Murdoch: https://aleximurdoch.com/ ⭐️PLEASE LEAVE A RATING AND REVIEW OF THE SHOW ❤️ SUPPORT THE SHOW LEAVE A ONE-OFF TIP ON KO-FI BECOME A REGULAR SUPPORTER ON PATREON 🇵🇸GET INVOLVED JEWISH VOICE FOR PEACE CONNECTING GAZA 🎙 LISTEN / WATCH / FOLLOW THE THIN VEIL THE THIN VEIL ON ALL PODCAST PLATFORMS THE THIN VEIL ON YOUTUBE THE THIN VEIL ON INSTAGRAM ✍️REACH OUT / SEND FEEDBACK [email protected] 👋 FOLLOW EZRA EZRA ON INSTAGRAM EZRA ON FACEBOOK EZRA'S WEBSITE EZRA ON YOUTUBE 🎵 THEME MUSIC BY MAGIC IN THE OTHER MAGIC IN THE OTHER WEBSITE MAGIC IN THE OTHER ON INSTAGRAM MAGIC IN THE OTHER ON YOUTUBE (00:00) - Coming Up: “The Cost of Our Silence” (01:00) - Why Revisit This Conversation? (06:14) - When Art Feels Like an Indulgence (09:19) - When Artists Can’t Afford to Be Oblique (14:30) - How We’re Taught to See Palestine (20:12) - “How Did You Go From ‘I Love This Guy’ to ‘Terrorist Sympathizer’?” (23:50) - A Culture That Lets Us Sleepwalk Through Genocide (25:23) - Can We Have Hope? (28:37) - Does Speaking Out Actually Work? (32:20) - Alexi Goes to Palestine (39:02) - Meeting Basel Adra in Masafer Yatta (42:19) - “Don’t Think of Palestinians as Superhuman” (44:30) - The Problem With “Coexistence” (46:04) - Peace Without Justice (52:18) - Anger, Empathy, and the Limits of Forgiveness (56:33) - The Cost of Speaking Up Is the Honor of Our Lives (01:00:07) - It’s Not Too Late (01:02:33) - The Algorithm and the Death of Complexity (01:04:08) - What Does Anti-Zionism Mean for Israeli Jews? (01:07:35) - Are People Who Seem Unreachable Actually “Gettable”? (01:10:30) - The Isolation of Speaking Out ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

There is a common story that is told about Gaza that goes something like this: Israel dismantled its settlements and withdrew from Gaza in 2005. Gaza was then free to govern itself, make peace with Israel, and develop what could have become a “Singapore on the Mediterranean.” Instead, Palestinians elected a terrorist organization, Hamas, which began firing rockets at Israel and building terror tunnels. In this episode of The Thin Veil, Ezra welcomes Dr. Zachary Foster, historian of Palestine and PhD in Near Eastern Studies, to deconstruct some of the common narratives and assumptions surrounding Gaza in the years between Israel’s 2005 withdrawal and the October 7, 2023 attacks. Did Israel actually leave Gaza? What did the 2005 disengagement mean for Palestinian sovereignty? And did Israel simply end its occupation—or change the way that occupation operated? We explore: Israel's 2005 disengagement from Gaza and what control Israel continued to exercise afterward The 2006 Palestinian elections and why Hamas won The escalating conflict between Hamas and Fatah and the 2007 Hamas takeover of Gaza The origins and impact of Israel's blockade and siege Gaza's economy, unemployment, electricity, water and sewage systems Israel's policies governing the flow of goods and calories into Gaza Hamas as both a political organization and governing authority The tunnel economy and the development of Hamas's military infrastructure The Second Intifada, suicide bombings and the Israeli response The recurring cycles of war and ceasefire between Israel and Hamas Hamas's 1988 charter and its 2017 political document The role of Islamism and the history of Hamas The Abraham Accords and the changing regional political landscape And finally, the strategic thinking that may have led Hamas to October 7 Zachary Foster is the creator of Palestine Nexus, a project dedicated to making the history of Palestine accessible through courses, writing, research and historical resources. Palestine Nexus https://palestinenexus.com/ ⭐️PLEASE LEAVE A RATING AND REVIEW OF THE SHOW ❤️ SUPPORT THE SHOW LEAVE A ONE-OFF TIP ON KO-FI BECOME A REGULAR SUPPORTER ON PATREON 🇵🇸GET INVOLVED JEWISH VOICE FOR PEACE CONNECTING GAZA 🎙 LISTEN / WATCH / FOLLOW THE THIN VEIL THE THIN VEIL ON ALL PODCAST PLATFORMS THE THIN VEIL ON YOUTUBE THE THIN VEIL ON INSTAGRAM ✍️REACH OUT / SEND FEEDBACK [email protected] 👋 FOLLOW EZRA EZRA ON INSTAGRAM EZRA ON FACEBOOK EZRA'S WEBSITE EZRA ON YOUTUBE 🎵 THEME MUSIC BY MAGIC IN THE OTHER MAGIC IN THE OTHER WEBSITE MAGIC IN THE OTHER ON INSTAGRAM MAGIC IN THE OTHER ON YOUTUBE (00:00) - Intro: The Story We’re Told About Gaza (04:30) - Who Is Zachary Foster? (06:00) - From Zionism to Anti-Zionism (10:00) - The Myth of Israel “Leaving” Gaza (12:30) - Why Did Israel Withdraw From Gaza? (15:00) - Did Israel Actually End the Occupation? (17:00) - Gaza Disengagement and the West Bank (19:00) - Why Did Hamas Win the 2006 Elections? (24:30) - The Hamas-Fatah Conflict and 2007 Takeover (27:30) - The Origins of the Gaza Blockade (32:30) - Israel’s “Starvation Plus” Policy (37:00) - Was Gaza Being Deliberately Kept in Crisis? (40:00) - Why Did Israel Need Hamas to Survive? (45:00) - The Gaza Tunnel Network (49:00) - Hamas and Governance in Gaza (52:30) - The Second Intifada and Suicide Bombings (55:30) - The “Balance of Terror” (57:30) - Administrative Detention and Palestinian Prisoners (59:30) - The Gaza Wars and Ceasefire Cycles (01:05:30) - Was the Blockade Itself an Act of War? (01:07:30) - Hamas, Islamism and the 1988 Charter (01:09:30) - The Origins and Evolution of Hamas (01:12:00) - Hamas’ 1988 Peace Overture to Israel (01:15:00) - The Israeli “Dove” and Yitzhak Rabin (01:19:30) - The Abraham Accords and Palestinian Isolation (01:24:00) - Hamas, Islamism and Its Political Evolution (01:26:30) - What Was Hamas Thinking on October 7? (01:30:30) - Reimagining October 7 Through Sinwar’s Strategy (01:35:00) - Closing ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

Mo Hamzeh is a Palestinian American activist, content creator and author who has been repeatedly banned from Meta platforms—at the time of publishing now on his 45th Instagram account. In this conversation, he talks about growing up Palestinian in a heavily Zionist community, being bullied as a child for identifying as Palestinian, and finally visiting Palestine for the first time in September 2023, just weeks before October 7. We talk about what happened after October 7 and why Palestinians were ignored, why Mo decided he was “done being polite,” his characterization of liberal Zionism as the most dangerous form of Zionism, and why he believes Palestinians should no longer have to defend their own humanity. We also discusses accusations of antisemitism within the Palestine movement and why Mo doesn't even think we should use that term, and how Israel's treatment of the Palestinians and the worlds complicity has exposed the myth of International Law. Follow Mo on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/aya.mo.llah/ ⭐️PLEASE LEAVE A RATING AND REVIEW OF THE SHOW ❤️ SUPPORT THE SHOW LEAVE A ONE-OFF TIP ON KO-FI BECOME A REGULAR SUPPORTER ON PATREON 🇵🇸GET INVOLVED JEWISH VOICE FOR PEACE CONNECTING GAZA 🎙 LISTEN / WATCH / FOLLOW THE THIN VEIL THE THIN VEIL ON ALL PODCAST PLATFORMS THE THIN VEIL ON YOUTUBE THE THIN VEIL ON INSTAGRAM ✍️REACH OUT / SEND FEEDBACK [email protected] 👋 FOLLOW EZRA EZRA ON INSTAGRAM EZRA ON FACEBOOK EZRA'S WEBSITE EZRA ON YOUTUBE 🎵 THEME MUSIC BY MAGIC IN THE OTHER MAGIC IN THE OTHER WEBSITE MAGIC IN THE OTHER ON INSTAGRAM MAGIC IN THE OTHER ON YOUTUBE (00:00) - Coming Up (00:47) - Intro (04:31) - Welcome to the Other Side (07:30) - Mo’s Palestinian Identity (11:18) - Returning to Palestine (14:00) - October 7th & Going All In (16:30) - Breaking Through to a Zionist (18:30) - The New Zionist Rhetoric (20:00) - Liberal Zionism & Selective Activism (25:30) - “Peaceful Zionism” & Denial (27:00) - Why Mo Is Done Being Polite (30:30) - Antisemitism, Anti-Jewish Hate & Zionism (34:30) - Palestine & the Fight Against Oppression (37:00) - Palestine, America & the System (39:00) - The Collapse of International Law (40:30) - Is Revolution Still Possible? (44:30) - Finding Joy During Genocide (48:30) - The Hope of a New Generation (50:00) - Is It Too Late for Gaza? (52:00) - Reclaiming Palestinian Humanity (53:30) - Outro ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★