The Thin Veil with Ezra Lipp

In this episode of The Thin Veil, Ezra sits down for a cathartic and deeply personal heart-to-heart with comedian, writer, doula, Female Intern podcast host, and former Zionist Danielle Deluty. Danielle grew up within an observant Modern Orthodox Jewish community, where political, familial, and religious ties to Israel were deeply intertwined. As she grew older, she began questioning the contradictions within the tradition she had inherited, particularly around gender equality. Those early cracks eventually led her to challenge both her Zionism and the religious framework that had shaped her identity, setting her on a path toward becoming an outspoken advocate for Palestinian liberation. In this revealing and vulnerable conversation, Danielle traces her journey of learning and unlearning, including formative encounters with Palestinians that challenged her worldview and gradually pulled her away from the pro-Israel advocacy she had once embraced. We explore the complicated relationship between Judaism and Zionism, the tensions Danielle feels with anti-Zionist Jews whose more liberal or secular religious upbringings differ sharply from her own, and the profound emotional cost of breaking with the community that once gave her life meaning and belonging. Ultimately, we wrestle with a question that remains unresolved: How do we hold people accountable for harmful beliefs while remaining open to their humanity, especially when those people are our own family and community? A conversation about indoctrination, identity, inherited trauma, Palestinian solidarity, and the difficult work of learning how to break with the past without losing our capacity for compassion. Danielle on Substack https://femaleintern.substack.com/ Website and Female Intern Podcast https://www.femaleintern.com/ https://www.femaleintern.com/podcast Danielle on TikTok https://www.tiktok.com/@femaleintern_ ⭐️PLEASE LEAVE A RATING AND REVIEW OF THE SHOW ❤️ SUPPORT THE SHOW LEAVE A ONE-OFF TIP ON KO-FI BECOME A REGULAR SUPPORTER ON PATREON 🇵🇸GET INVOLVED JEWISH VOICE FOR PEACE CONNECTING GAZA 🎙 LISTEN / WATCH / FOLLOW THE THIN VEIL THE THIN VEIL ON ALL PODCAST PLATFORMS THE THIN VEIL ON YOUTUBE THE THIN VEIL ON INSTAGRAM ✍️REACH OUT / SEND FEEDBACK [email protected] 👋 FOLLOW EZRA EZRA ON INSTAGRAM EZRA ON FACEBOOK EZRA'S WEBSITE EZRA ON YOUTUBE 🎵 THEME MUSIC BY MAGIC IN THE OTHER MAGIC IN THE OTHER WEBSITE MAGIC IN THE OTHER ON INSTAGRAM MAGIC IN THE OTHER ON YOUTUBE (00:00) - The Worst Thing That Happens When You Educate Women (00:44) - Introducing Danielle Deluty (03:08) - Why Danielle Envies Anti-Zionist Jews (04:18) - Growing Up Modern Orthodox and Zionist (08:37) - Questioning Women's Roles in Orthodox Judaism (13:24) - AIPAC, Republican Politics, and the Need to Belong (15:10) - Holocaust Trauma and Israel as a Promise of Safety (18:49) - Where Were Palestinians in the Story? (22:14) - The David Project and Pro-Israel Education (24:22) - Witnessing the Reality of an Israeli Checkpoint (28:12) - A Palestinian Professor Changes Her Perspective (31:40) - Law School, Political Radicalization, and Care Work (34:49) - October 7 and a Painful Family Divide (36:53) - Jewish Memory and the Politics of Victimhood (42:08) - Has Zionism Hijacked Judaism? (44:21) - Jewish Accountability and Complicity (46:06) - Palestinian Liberation vs. Redeeming Jewish Identity (51:30) - The Personal Cost of Leaving Zionism (53:58) - Biblical Narratives and Connection to the Land (56:40) - Is There a Path Toward Repair? (58:58) - Remaining Soft in a World of Violence (01:01:50) - Compassion, Boundaries, and Urgency (01:03:06) - Following Palestinian Leadership (01:04:14) - Closing Remarks ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

Rami Younis is a Palestinian journalist, filmmaker, and cultural activist from Lyd, a Palestinian city inside present-day Israel. He co-founded the Hebrew-language news outlet Local Call, the sister publication of +972 Magazine, served as a parliamentary consultant and spokesperson for Palestinian Knesset member Haneen Zoabi, and co-founded the Palestine Music Expo. He also hosted On the Other Hand, a pioneering Arabic-language daily news and political commentary show on Israeli public television, and co-directed the acclaimed sci-fi documentary Lyd, which explores the tragedy that befell his hometown in 1948 while imagining how history might have unfolded differently. In this conversation, Rami reflects on the contradictions of being Palestinian in “the Jewish State,” the challenges of resisting from within Israeli society, what the possibilities and limitations are for Israeli-Palestinian activism, and his warning that Zionism threatens not only Palestinians, but the future of Israelis themselves—and much more. Rami's Journalism in +972 Magazine Lyd - A Sci-Fi Documentary by Rami Younis & Sarah Ema Friedland ⭐️PLEASE LEAVE A RATING AND REVIEW OF THE SHOW ❤️ SUPPORT THE SHOW LEAVE A ONE-OFF TIP ON KO-FI BECOME A REGULAR SUPPORTER ON PATREON 🇵🇸GET INVOLVED JEWISH VOICE FOR PEACE CONNECTING GAZA 🎙 LISTEN / WATCH / FOLLOW THE THIN VEIL THE THIN VEIL ON ALL PODCAST PLATFORMS THE THIN VEIL ON YOUTUBE THE THIN VEIL ON INSTAGRAM ✍️REACH OUT / SEND FEEDBACK [email protected] 👋 FOLLOW EZRA EZRA ON INSTAGRAM EZRA ON FACEBOOK EZRA'S WEBSITE EZRA ON YOUTUBE 🎵 THEME MUSIC BY MAGIC IN THE OTHER MAGIC IN THE OTHER WEBSITE MAGIC IN THE OTHER ON INSTAGRAM MAGIC IN THE OTHER ON YOUTUBE (00:00) - Cold Open: Rami's Warning to Israeli Society (00:55) - Introduction: Meet Rami Younis (03:04) - Living Alongside Israeli Soldiers After Gaza (05:54) - The Contradictions of Palestinian Citizenship (07:51) - Detachment, Numbness, and Gaza (09:20) - Growing Up Palestinian in a Jewish Neighborhood (11:31) - Israel's European Identity and Colonial Mentality (13:03) - Are Palestinian Citizens Equal in Israel? (15:42) - Why Israeli Society Needs to Save Itself (17:36) - Is Netanyahu the Problem—or Israeli Society? (19:30) - Romanticizing the Past and Imagining a Shared Future (23:33) - Why Palestinian Cultural Resistance Matters (25:31) - Lyd: Imagining an Alternative History (26:17) - Normalization vs. Jewish-Palestinian Partnership (28:31) - Rami on Standing Together (29:29) - Israeli Journalists, Privilege, and No Other Land (33:35) - Why Israeli Society Rejects Its Critics (34:57) - A Warning to American Jews and Liberal Zionists (37:14) - Journalism as Palestinian Empowerment (39:25) - The Compromises of Working on Israeli Television (43:49) - Palestinian Privilege and Political Fragmentation (45:32) - Rami's Vision for a Free Palestine (47:39) - Closing Thoughts ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

Ashira Darwish is a Palestinian investigative journalist, trauma healer, and former human rights activist whose work explores the relationship between occupation, resistance, trauma, and collective healing. After years working in journalism and advocacy, and following a spinal injury in 2012 that temporarily left her paralyzed, she developed Ashira Active Meditation, a trauma-integration practice rooted in somatic healing, ancestral wisdom, and liberation psychology. I first encountered Ashira as a producer and one of the central voices in the extraordinary documentary Where Olive Trees Weep, alongside Dr. Gabor Maté. The film explores the deep psychological and spiritual wounds carried by Palestinians living under occupation. In this powerful conversation, Ashira reflects on being detained and tortured by Israeli forces, interviewing Palestinian resistance fighters during the Second Intifada, the dignity she associates with Palestinian resistance, and the psychological impact of imprisonment and occupation. We also discuss Gaza, Palestinian prisoners, Western power and colonialism, and what healing can mean when the conditions producing trauma are still ongoing. Through Catharsis Holistic Healing, Ashira now works with Palestinians and other communities affected by genocide, displacement, and intergenerational trauma. Ashira Darwish & Catharsis Holistic Healing Follow Ashira On Instagram Where Olive Trees Weep Film SUMUD Project for Neuro-Medical Care Providing free neurological treatment and rehabilitation to the people of Gaza through dedicated volunteer doctors and specialists. Project Hope - Supporting Families in Gaza ⭐️PLEASE LEAVE A RATING AND REVIEW OF THE SHOW ❤️ SUPPORT THE SHOW LEAVE A ONE-OFF TIP ON KO-FI BECOME A REGULAR SUPPORTER ON PATREON New Subscriber Feature - Leave a voicemail for Ezra and he will get back to you 🇵🇸GET INVOLVED JEWISH VOICE FOR PEACE CONNECTING GAZA 🎙 LISTEN / WATCH / FOLLOW THE THIN VEIL THE THIN VEIL ON ALL PODCAST PLATFORMS THE THIN VEIL ON YOUTUBE THE THIN VEIL ON INSTAGRAM ✍️REACH OUT / SEND FEEDBACK [email protected] 👋 FOLLOW EZRA EZRA ON INSTAGRAM EZRA ON FACEBOOK EZRA'S WEBSITE EZRA ON YOUTUBE 🎵 THEME MUSIC BY MAGIC IN THE OTHER MAGIC IN THE OTHER WEBSITE MAGIC IN THE OTHER ON INSTAGRAM MAGIC IN THE OTHER ON YOUTUBE (00:00) - Coming Up: “You’ll Find the Empaths” (00:30) - Introducing Ashira Darwish (04:21) - What Feels Most Alive Right Now? (09:41) - Hope, Collapse & “The Veil” Coming Off (12:56) - What Resistance Can Look Like (16:00) - Palestine, Empire & Colonialism at Home (22:07) - Gaza, Separation & the Dream of Reaching the Sea (25:18) - Interviewing Palestinian Resistance Fighters (28:06) - “You’ll Find the Empaths” (32:24) - Was October 7 a Mistake? (33:37) - Why Ashira Refuses to Speak for Gaza (36:04) - Palestinian Prisoners & Israeli Detention (42:24) - Ashira’s Own Arrest and Torture (45:41) - Survivor’s Guilt & “Palestinian Mama Loving” (48:22) - Prisoners, Hostages & the Logic of Resistance (50:32) - What Would a Free Palestine Require? (53:02) - Justice, Accountability & What Comes Next (54:37) - Healing, Liberation Psychology & Ashira’s Work (58:11) - Closing Thoughts & Resources ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

For years, Palestinian activist Hamze Awawde worked inside the world of Israeli-Palestinian dialogue organizations, NGOs, international conferences, donor networks, and what he now calls the “industrial-peace complex.” Hamze Awawde Substack I Was The Good Palestinian - Hamze's Essay Hamze on Instagram In this conversation, Hamze offers an insider’s critique of a well-funded system that he argues often substitutes the appearance of dialogue and managing audiences comfort levels for confronting the realities of occupation, dispossession, genocide, and Palestinian political agency. He describes the subtle—and often explicit—pressure placed on Palestinians to moderate their language, accommodate Western/Israeli sensitivities, condemn Hamas before speaking about their own people, and remain within the boundaries of what Western donors and institutions consider acceptable. He also recounts watching Palestinian voices excluded, managed, or replaced when they challenged those boundaries. Hamze also reflects on his own journey from an idealistic teenager growing up amidst the violence of the Second Palestinian Intifada drawn to dialogue and reconciliation, to becoming deeply disillusioned with the institutions in which he spent years working. He speaks about his grandfather, a Palestinian resistance fighter killed before Hamze was born; his family’s experience of occupation and home demolitions; the meaning of resistance; and why he no longer believes human beings are “entitled to hope.” We also discuss what justice might actually look like, the difference between peace and pacification, the limits of “shared grief” without an analysis of power, and what meaningful solidarity with Palestinians asks of people in the West. ⭐️PLEASE LEAVE A RATING AND REVIEW OF THE SHOW ❤️ SUPPORT THE SHOW LEAVE A ONE-OFF TIP ON KO-FI BECOME A REGULAR SUPPORTER ON PATREON 🇵🇸GET INVOLVED JEWISH VOICE FOR PEACE CONNECTING GAZA 🎙 LISTEN / WATCH / FOLLOW THE THIN VEIL THE THIN VEIL ON ALL PODCAST PLATFORMS THE THIN VEIL ON YOUTUBE THE THIN VEIL ON INSTAGRAM ✍️REACH OUT / SEND FEEDBACK [email protected] 👋 FOLLOW EZRA EZRA ON INSTAGRAM EZRA ON FACEBOOK EZRA'S WEBSITE EZRA ON YOUTUBE 🎵 THEME MUSIC BY MAGIC IN THE OTHER MAGIC IN THE OTHER WEBSITE MAGIC IN THE OTHER ON INSTAGRAM MAGIC IN THE OTHER ON YOUTUBE (00:00) - Coming Up (01:06) - Introduction (04:35) - Hamze’s Story: From Resistance to the Peace Industry (07:25) - Inside the Israeli-Palestinian “Peace Industry” (12:13) - When Hamze Began Seeing Through the Illusion (16:15) - Who Funds the Peace Industry? (20:04) - “This Is a Sedation Process” (27:27) - The Language Palestinians Aren’t Allowed to Use (33:29) - How Palestinian Grief Is Used (38:12) - Why Hamze Stayed for 19 Years (43:16) - Breaking With the Peace Industry (47:41) - Following the Money (49:52) - Were the Friendships Ever Real? (54:59) - His Grandfather, Resistance & Sacrifice (59:51) - Is There Still Hope for a Free Palestine? (01:11:11) - What Can People in the West Actually Do? (01:15:37) - Community, Identity & Following the Truth (01:18:16) - Outro ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

In this episode of The Thin Veil, I sit down with critically acclaimed British musician Alexi Murdoch for a wide-ranging conversation about art, activism, Western culture, and the personal and professional costs of speaking in support of Palestine. Alexi reflects on why he has found it increasingly difficult to simply retreat into the creative process while witnessing the genocide in Gaza, and why he ultimately felt compelled to use his platform more directly. He discusses the tension between art as an indirect way of awakening empathy and the urgency of speaking plainly when people are suffering. The conversation also explores Alexi’s 2025 trip to Palestine, what he witnessed in the West Bank, the experience of meeting Palestinians living under occupation, and how that experience changed his understanding of the situation. He also offers many reflections on the broader Western material culture we are living in, and the shallowness this moment is exposing about it. Alexi and I recorded this conversation in March 2026, before the first episode of The Thin Veil was released. I’m rebroadcasting it now because I think the questions we wrestled with then remain deeply relevant—and because many of you who have discovered the show since its earliest episodes may have never heard this conversation. This also felt like an important conversation to re-air in a time when artists stances on this are being increasingly scrutinized and leading to greater consequences. Alexi Murdoch: https://aleximurdoch.com/ ⭐️PLEASE LEAVE A RATING AND REVIEW OF THE SHOW ❤️ SUPPORT THE SHOW LEAVE A ONE-OFF TIP ON KO-FI BECOME A REGULAR SUPPORTER ON PATREON 🇵🇸GET INVOLVED JEWISH VOICE FOR PEACE CONNECTING GAZA 🎙 LISTEN / WATCH / FOLLOW THE THIN VEIL THE THIN VEIL ON ALL PODCAST PLATFORMS THE THIN VEIL ON YOUTUBE THE THIN VEIL ON INSTAGRAM ✍️REACH OUT / SEND FEEDBACK [email protected] 👋 FOLLOW EZRA EZRA ON INSTAGRAM EZRA ON FACEBOOK EZRA'S WEBSITE EZRA ON YOUTUBE 🎵 THEME MUSIC BY MAGIC IN THE OTHER MAGIC IN THE OTHER WEBSITE MAGIC IN THE OTHER ON INSTAGRAM MAGIC IN THE OTHER ON YOUTUBE (00:00) - Coming Up: “The Cost of Our Silence” (01:00) - Why Revisit This Conversation? (06:14) - When Art Feels Like an Indulgence (09:19) - When Artists Can’t Afford to Be Oblique (14:30) - How We’re Taught to See Palestine (20:12) - “How Did You Go From ‘I Love This Guy’ to ‘Terrorist Sympathizer’?” (23:50) - A Culture That Lets Us Sleepwalk Through Genocide (25:23) - Can We Have Hope? (28:37) - Does Speaking Out Actually Work? (32:20) - Alexi Goes to Palestine (39:02) - Meeting Basel Adra in Masafer Yatta (42:19) - “Don’t Think of Palestinians as Superhuman” (44:30) - The Problem With “Coexistence” (46:04) - Peace Without Justice (52:18) - Anger, Empathy, and the Limits of Forgiveness (56:33) - The Cost of Speaking Up Is the Honor of Our Lives (01:00:07) - It’s Not Too Late (01:02:33) - The Algorithm and the Death of Complexity (01:04:08) - What Does Anti-Zionism Mean for Israeli Jews? (01:07:35) - Are People Who Seem Unreachable Actually “Gettable”? (01:10:30) - The Isolation of Speaking Out ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★