Jürgen Ingels, Founding Partner of Smartfin | Being an Entrepreneur Is a Sh*t Life

“It's a sh*t life. Being an entrepreneur is a sh*t life,” says Jürgen Ingels. He co-founded the payments company Clear2Pay, which FIS bought in 2014, and afterwards people told him he had been lucky. He wanted to show he could do it again and set up the fund Smartfin, where he is founding partner and chairman. He also runs SuperNova, the technology festival in Antwerp that brought Barack Obama, Oprah Winfrey and Arnold Schwarzenegger to Belgium. His book Start, Grow, Sell collects fifty lessons for entrepreneurs. In the third episode of White Box Rodeo, Robert Valentine and Kayvan Nikjou start in the studio with what stayed with them after meeting Jürgen: how calm and genuine he came across, trauma as a driver for founders and why a good company may need only a small team in the age of AI. Robert explains why some of his questions in the interview appear as cards on screen: his microphone did not work during the recording. After that comes the interview, in which Kayvan and Robert talk with Jürgen about SuperNova, his companies and what he has learned as a founder and investor. Jürgen explains how SuperNova got Obama to Belgium through contacts in the US and how Oprah read his book on her plane and later invited him to her podcast. He talks about working every Saturday morning, about work-life balance in the first ten years of a career and about what he calls mushroom companies: small teams that grow fast. He also covers whether Europe can compete with China and the US, his space collection and the new space and defence fund at Smartfin. He tells the story of his chocolate shops in Stockholm and why they closed. The episode ends with what he has learned about happiness. New episode every Friday. Recorded at Berghaus, Amsterdam (studio) and at Jürgen's office in Flanders (interview). Chapters 0:00 Cold open 0:31 Who is Jürgen Ingels? 3:12 The missing cable and Robert's mic 4:31 AI, small teams and SuperNova 6:58 The interview: a week of SuperNova 8:25 How SuperNova got Obama 13:33 SuperNova's bar, investors and a prize in Cannes 16:43 Human capital and mushroom companies 21:58 Charlie Duke, Oprah and her podcast 27:35 Interviewing Oprah and Obama on stage 31:33 Saturday mornings and work-life balance 36:41 Creativity, robots and Europe's heritage 39:42 Can Europe compete with China and the US? 44:56 Does university still matter? 48:06 Musk, Jobs and what drives top founders 51:19 Deliverect and how he spots winners 56:16 Clear2Pay, "you got lucky" and Smartfin 1:00:04 Being an entrepreneur is a sh*t life 1:01:34 Why he stays in Belgium 1:03:47 His father, Apollo and a space museum 1:08:44 Space, defence and the road to Mars 1:15:18 Chocolate in Stockholm and other companies 1:24:24 Longevity, Celtic salt and Eat Move Sleep 1:30:30 Living longer and what happiness is Correction: at 1:24 Kayvan says Clear2Pay was sold for 400 million euros. FIS paid approximately €375 million for all shares of Clear2Pay in 2014. Correction: at 15:35 Kayvan links the prize for the SuperNova opening film to the Cannes Film Festival. The opening film of SuperNova 2025 won a Silver Dolphin in the Event Promotion category at the Cannes Corporate Media & TV Awards, a separate festival for corporate films, in September 2025. Correction: at 22:12 Jürgen places Charlie Duke on Apollo 17. Duke walked on the moon as lunar module pilot of Apollo 16 in April 1972 and was the backup lunar module pilot for Apollo 17. White Box Rodeo is for information and entertainment only and is not investment advice. The hosts may hold interests in companies they discuss. Watch the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaAUljLQewQ White Box Rodeo: https://whiteboxrodeo.com Hosts: Robert Valentine and Kayvan Nikjou