Wisdom of Impermanence

Tune in to Justin Michelson, co-founder of the Eugene Insight Meditation Center and author of The Dharma of Healing: A Path of Liberation from Stress, Pain, and Trauma. Justin teaches in the Insight Vipassana and Thai Forest traditions and lives in an intentional community outside Eugene, Oregon, where he also runs a native plant nursery and leads nature-based meditation retreats. In this rich and intimate conversation, Justin shares his spiritual journey - from discovering meditation at fifteen and training in the Buddhist path, to confronting stuck emotions and unnamed trauma that his practice alone couldn't resolve. He speaks candidly about how integrating somatic therapy and Internal Family Systems work with Buddhist teachings led to a profound awakening and ultimately to his book. Justin explains why self-compassion is often the missing doorway to deeper spiritual insight, and why our aversion to pain - not the pain itself - is what locks suffering in place. Together, Margaret and Justin explore what it means to treat our pain as a teacher, the surprising truth that even our most frightening inner "monsters" can be just one compassionate moment away from transformation, and how Justin had to lean on his own teachings when a serious illness tested everything he had written. They also discuss the power of intentional community, the role of faith and devotion on the path, and why there is no "finish line" in healing - only an ever-deepening devotion to caring for whatever arises. The episode closes with a beautiful guided self-compassion practice built on four simple phrases - I see you, I understand, I care, and I'm here to support you - offering listeners a concrete tool they can begin using immediately, whether toward themselves or others. Whether you're a longtime meditator, someone navigating trauma, or simply curious about healing at the intersection of spirituality and psychology, this episode offers gentle, accessible wisdom for moving toward connection - with yourself, with others, and with the natural world. Find Justin at justinmichaelsondharma.com, where you can learn about his upcoming retreats and find his book The Dharma of Healing: A Path of Liberation from Stress, Pain, and Trauma, on Shambhala, Amazon, and Barnes & Noble.

Rosanne Annoni - psychotherapist of 35 years, ordained Diamond Approach teacher, and author of the newly released memoir Unfolding the Heart: One Woman's Quest for True Nature, traces the remarkable arc of her spiritual journey: from a childhood vision of becoming a Catholic nun (and her mother's unforgettable reaction) to years of searching through metaphysics and Vipassana meditation, to finding her spiritual home in the Diamond Approach and the teachings of Hameed Ali (A.H. Almaas). Rosanne shares the story of how a book her student gave her, A Cave in the Snow, inspired her to spend a month of silent retreat at Gampo Abbey for her 60th birthday - where she unexpectedly found herself staying in Pema Chödrön's own cabin. She also reflects on the surprising echoes between her Catholic upbringing and Buddhist practice, from incense and chanting to prayer as a form of meditation, and how the two traditions ultimately reconciled in her heart - including a deeply moving moment of forgiveness with her mother near the end of her life. At the heart of this conversation is Rosanne's raw and honest account of grief and transformation: losing her "twin soul," her best friend of 45 years, to cancer while facing her own diagnosis, and how that crushing loss called her to truly live her practice. She speaks candidly about losing contact with her true nature, finding her way back, and the lesson impermanence keeps teaching as she approaches 80. Her closing message is one of hope - that no matter your tradition or your messy life, a willingness to turn inward with curiosity makes it possible for anyone to discover who they really are. Unfolding the Heart is available in paperback, ebook, and audiobook (read by Rosanne herself) at Amazon, Simon & Schuster, and Bookshop.com.

Margaret sits down with Michael Todd Fink - licensed psychotherapist, mindfulness meditation teacher, host of the Kind Mind podcast, and co-founder of the folk rock group The Giving Tree Band - to discuss his beautiful new book of reflections and poetry, Losslessness: Reflections on Impermanence, Glimpses of Forever. Todd shares the wisdom at the heart of his writing: that impermanence doesn't negate meaning - it undergirds it. Through the metaphor of waves rising and falling on the ocean, he explores how what falls away clarifies what abides, and how loss can orient us back to our true nature. Margaret and Todd also dive into his poem "Life is a Movie," examining how the challenges and "plot twists" of our lives might be embraced as part of a meaningful story rather than resisted as obstacles. The conversation moves into Todd's clinical practice, where he discusses how creativity, ritual, and rites of passage help people navigate grief and transition. He shares the deeply personal story of how woodworking helped him heal after a painful loss, and how making small decisions through art can restore confidence and direction when we feel stuck. Drawing on his work with indigenous communities in New Mexico, Todd reflects on cultural humility and the many different ways of knowing beyond Western clinical research. Margaret and Todd also explore the tension between attachment and fear, how our culture's compartmentalization of art, science, and spirituality limits us - and how integrating all three streams can open the door to transformation. Todd generously reads from his poem "The Root of Fear," offering an intimate look at his own lifelong relationship with anxiety and the practice of letting go. Whether you're grieving a loss, facing a major life transition, or simply curious about how Buddhist wisdom intersects with modern psychology, this episode offers compassionate insight and practical wisdom for finding your center in a rapidly changing world. Find his book: "Losslessness: Reflections on Impermanence, Glimpses of Forever" (available on Amazon, michaeltoddfink.com, and Luna and Luz in Albuquerque) Find Michael: · Website: michaeltoddfink.com · Podcast: The Kind Mind Podcast (available on podcast platforms and YouTube) · Psychology Today Blog Series: "The Circle of Compassion" And do not forget: · Artist: Mary Drury (Dryad Expressions) created the cover art and offers prints

You know that moment at the amusement park - you've just stumbled off a roller coaster, heart pounding, and your friend turns to you with a huge grin and says, "Let's go again!" Sometimes you're right there with them. And sometimes... once was enough. In this episode, Margaret Meloni takes that familiar little moment and opens it up into something surprisingly profound: a meditation on samsara, the "wandering on" that the Buddha described - the wheel of birth, death, and rebirth kept spinning not by punishment or judgment, but by the sheer momentum of our own craving, aversion, and confusion. At the heart of this episode is a story about a clever question and a compassionate correction. Margaret once asked a respected teacher: if rebirth means coming back for another ride, shouldn't we celebrate death and mourn birth? Shouldn't we flip the whole thing around? His answer - gentle, patient, and quietly devastating - reframes the entire spiritual path. We don't celebrate death, because we don't know where someone goes next. The ride doesn't stop just because the car has returned to the station. It stops only when the conditions that keep it running have been uprooted. This isn't an episode about hating life or gritting your teeth until it's over. It's about something far more tender: learning to keep your eyes open while the ride is still in motion. To feel what there is to feel without contracting around it. To notice that the thrill of samsara always comes packaged with dread, that its pleasures always call for repetition - and that the "again" is itself the suffering. Whether you're deep into Buddhist practice or simply curious about what it might mean to find ground beneath your feet that doesn't move, this episode offers a gentle invitation: not to escape the ride, but to use it. To let the craving, the fear, and the clinging weaken and thin - so that when the ride ends, perhaps nothing pulls you onto the next one. Step off. Stand still. And listen.

Margaret sits down with Joshua Nathaniel Pritikin - a former software and statistics professional turned psychological counselor, and the author of Religion Unburdened by Belief: An Open Inquiry. Joshua's path took a bold turn when he left behind a career in tech to follow a deeper calling: understanding the human mind and helping others navigate mental health. Now an IFS (Internal Family Systems) Certified Practitioner, he brings a refreshingly grounded and open-ended approach to spirituality, one that invites curiosity instead of blind acceptance. Together, Margaret and Joshua explore what it might mean to practice a "scientific religion" - not in the sense of dogma or rigid doctrine, but as a way to make religious and meditative experiences more reliable, repeatable, and honest. Joshua shares how his book builds on the work of James Carse, and how he aims to develop tools for spiritual growth that include real feedback, not just self-deception or comfortable habits. They dive into a simple yet powerful meditation adjustment: instead of brushing aside distractions, take a mental note, return to your focus, and later tend to the "parts" that surfaced. It's a small shift that can deepen both meditation and self-understanding. The conversation also takes a fascinating turn as Joshua describes the use of serotonergic psychedelics in communal ceremonies, like those in the Santo Daime tradition. He explains how participants are asked to stay present with the group - singing hymns, keeping rhythm, and remaining aware - even as the substance pulls them inward. This practice of "firmness," he suggests, trains the same muscles we use in meditation: staying present, resisting distraction, and developing discipline that carries into daily life. It's a compelling look at how spiritual experiences can be observed, shared, and even measured in group settings. Throughout the episode, Margaret and Joshua touch on the danger of inherited beliefs, the vital role of questioning, and why open inquiry matters now more than ever. Joshua offers a hopeful vision: that religious experiences can inspire empathy, compassion, and a deeper sense of connection to all beings. And for anyone curious about taking this work further, Joshua shares that he has room in his talk therapy practice - available via Zoom, with a sliding scale - through his website, unburdened.biz. For more, check out this article: https://thegentlelaw.substack.com/p/what-is-the-goal-in-meditation Tune in for a rich, thoughtful conversation about meditation, belief, and what it means to meet the unknown with both rigor and an open heart.