Cross-Examined

Episode Summary: Most AML/CTF enforcement action against lawyers does not stem from deliberate wrongdoing, but small everyday decisions that go unchallenged and unchecked. This episode explores UK enforcement cases to show how Australian practitioners can recognise risk earlier, strengthen compliance and avoid the mistakes of their UK counterparts. Guest: Dr Katie Benson, Senior Lecturer in Criminology, University of Manchester Associate Fellow, RUSI Centre for Finance and Security, with a background in UK law enforcement Expert in the role of lawyers in facilitating illicit finance and regulatory responses www.linkedin.com/in/katie-benson-b36029a4/ | research.manchester.ac.uk/en/persons/katie.benson Host: Artemis Evangelidis, Law Institute of Victoria [email protected] | www.linkedin.com/company/law-institute-of-victoria Episode Overview: Drawing on UK’s AML/CTF enforcement cases against lawyers, this episode examines how the decisions and actions in day-to-day legal practice can lead to serious legal consequences. It highlights key risk areas, including client account compliance, property transactions and source of funds due diligence. Dr Katie Benson brings a research-driven perspective, grounded in case analysis and industry interviews, to explain how situational pressures and organisational context shape decision making. For lawyers preparing for AML/CTF compliance Australia, this episode provides practical guidance on identifying early warning signs, avoiding complacency and strengthening firm-wide risk management practices. Topics & Timestamps: 00:04 Intro and AML reforms context 01:02 Types of AML enforcement cases involving lawyers 03:00 Criminal and regulatory pathways 05:00 High-risk areas including property and client accounts 09:27 Differences in culpability and enforcement outcomes 14:58 Red flags and suspicious client behaviour 19:45 Practical guidance for Australian lawyers 23:31 Final reflections on risk and accountability Key Takeaways: AML/CTF enforcement action against lawyers in the UK does not often stem from deliberate misconduct UK cases show client accounts and property transactions are consistent high-risk areas Source of funds and source of wealth checks are critical and increasingly scrutinised Demonstrating active compliance, not just policies on paper, is essential[IF1] Situational pressures and firm culture influence how lawyers respond to risk Early intervention and questioning client narratives can prevent escalation Compliance must be embedded across the firm, not left to individuals Resources & Links: LIV AML/CTF Hub – Central resource for Tranche 2 readiness and compliance guidance | www.liv.asn.au/amlhub LIV Compliance and Professional Standards – Practical guidance on regulatory obligations for lawyers | www.liv.asn.au/compliance SRA AML Annual Report – UK enforcement trends and insights into compliance failures | www.sra.org.uk/sra/research-publications/aml-annual-report-2023-24/ University of Manchester profile – Dr Katie Benson – Research overview and publications | research.manchester.ac.uk/en/persons/katie.benson AUSTRAC AML/CTF guidance – Australian regulatory framework and expectations | www.austrac.gov.au Dr Katie Benson’s 2020 book, Lawyers and the Proceeds of Crime From money laundering to illicit finance – Comparative research on evolving AML regulation in the UK and Australia (2025) | www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10345329.2024.2443702#abstract Complementarity, tension and proportionality in the anti-money laundering regulation of law firm client accounts (2026) | link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10611-025-10252-3 Occupation, organisation, opportunity and oversight: law firm client accounts and (anti-)money laundering (2024) | link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10610-024-09581-1 About This Podcast: Cross-Examined is a new podcast from the Law Institute of Victoria. Tune in to hear experts discuss hot topics in the law and the changes shaping the legal profession. Regular episodes will cover everything from AI and cyber threats to ethical dilemmas, workplace taboos and practice management insights. This podcast is recorded on the traditional lands of the Wurundjeri people of the Kulin Nation. The Law Institute of Victoria acknowledges the Traditional Custodians of Country across Australia. We pay our respects to Elders past and present. Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational purposes only and is not intended to replace professional legal advice. The views expressed in this podcast do not necessarily reflect the views of the Law Institute of Victoria (LIV). The LIV is not responsible for any losses, damages or liabilities that may arise from the use of this podcast. Listeners should seek independent legal advice for their matters. Production Information: Produced by: The Law Institute of Victoria Producer and audio editor: Garreth Hanley Music: Garreth Hanley Copy and show notes: Louise Surette Connect With Us: Email: [email protected] Website: www.liv.asn.au LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/company/law-institute-of-victoria Apple Podcasts: podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/cross-examined/id1858765728 Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/0zvyk5xia4wYv9YWcXphgV

Episode Summary: What if the biggest money laundering risks in your practice looked exactly like your most routine transactions? This episode explores money laundering typologies and why criminal activity often hides in plain sight within legitimate legal work. Learn how recognising patterns – not just stand-alone red flags – can help mitigate risks for your practice. Guest: Neil Jeans, Partner, Risk Consulting, Grant Thornton Australia Former financial crime investigator, regulator and AUSTRAC expert witness Specialist in financial crime risk and AML systems across law enforcement, banking and regulation www.linkedin.com/in/neiljeans www.grantthornton.com.au/meet-our-people/neil-jeans Host: Artemis Evangelidis, Law Institute of Victoria [email protected] | www.linkedin.com/company/law-institute-of-victoria Episode Overview: For lawyers now operating under the AML/CTF regime, the key risk is not deliberate involvement in financial crime, but inadvertent facilitation through routine work. Far from abstract concepts, money laundering typologies reflect real, documented methods criminals use to exploit legitimate legal services. In this episode, Neil Jeans explains how these patterns persist and why they may appear completely ordinary at the point of transaction. This episode explores practical examples, including trust account transactions, property settlements and nominee structures, to show how they can inadvertently create opportunities for criminal networks to exploit. It also examines why red flags often seem obvious only in hindsight and at what junctions applying additional scrutiny yields most benefit. Listeners will gain a clearer understanding of financial crime risk in legal practice, AML reporting obligations for lawyers, and how to identify suspicious transaction behaviours before they escalate. Topics & Timestamps: [00:12] Introduction and AML regime context [01:39] Money laundering typologies explained [04:28] Why particular legal services are attractive to criminals [06:35] Lessons from CBA and Westpac enforcement cases [09:01] How criminals approach lawyers as clients [12:06] Red flags and ambiguity in real transactions [14:06] Reporting obligations and tipping-off concerns [16:40] Key resources for understanding typologies [18:44] Final advice: applying professional judgment Key Takeaways: Criminal networks exploit legal services by making fraudulent transactions look routine and legitimate Most exposure for lawyers is inadvertent facilitation, not deliberate wrongdoing Structural factors such as trust accounts and professional credibility create money laundering vulnerabilities Red flags often appear plausible in real time and only stand out in hindsight An effective way to approach unusual behaviour is to rationalise it before forming a suspicion The AML/CTF regime creates a degree of tension between client relationships and reporting obligations Curiosity and sound professional judgment are critical tools in identifying money laundering risks Resources & Links: Law Institute of Victoria AML resources – Guidance and updates for lawyers on AML obligations | www.liv.asn.au/amlhub Law Institute Journal - Beyond the AML/CTF checklist | www.liv.asn.au/web/law_institute_journal_and_news/web/lij/year/2026/06june/beyond-the-amlctf-checklist.aspx Law Institute Journal – New free AML guide helps lawyers understand compliance requirements | www.liv.asn.au/web/law_institute_journal_and_news/web/lij/year/2026/02february/new-free-aml-guide-helps-lawyers-understand-compliance-requirements.aspx Law Institute Journal - AML red flags for lawyers | www.liv.asn.au/web/law_institute_journal_and_news/web/lij/year/2024/09september/new_aml_regime_will_require_lawyers_to_monitor_red_flags_and_mitigate_risks.aspx AUSTRAC AML/CTF starter kit for lawyers – Risk assessments and typologies for legal practitioners | www.austrac.gov.au/industry-and-business/obligations-and-guidance/program-starter-kits/legal-profession-program-starter-kit AUSTRAC National Risk Assessment – Analysis of money laundering threats in Australia | www.austrac.gov.au/industry-and-business/education-and-resources/publications-and-resources/money-laundering-australia-national-risk-assessment-2024 About This Podcast: Cross-Examined is a new podcast from the Law Institute of Victoria. Tune in to hear experts discuss hot topics in the law and the changes shaping the legal profession. Regular episodes will cover everything from AI and cyber threats to ethical dilemmas, workplace taboos and practice management insights. This podcast is recorded on the traditional lands of the Wurundjeri people of the Kulin Nation. The Law Institute of Victoria acknowledges the Traditional Custodians of Country across Australia. We pay our respects to Elders past and present. Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational purposes only and is not intended to replace professional legal advice. The views expressed in this podcast do not necessarily reflect the views of the Law Institute of Victoria (LIV). The LIV is not responsible for any losses, damages or liabilities that may arise from the use of this podcast. Listeners should seek independent legal advice for their matters. Production Information: Produced by: The Law Institute of Victoria Producer and audio editor: Garreth Hanley Music: Garreth Hanley Copy and show notes: Louise Surette Connect With Us: Email: [email protected] Website: www.liv.asn.au LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/company/law-institute-of-victoria Apple Podcasts: www.podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/cross-examined/id1858765728 Spotify: www.open.spotify.com/show/0zvyk5xia4wYv9YWcXphgV

Episode Summary: The Financial Action Task Force, or FATF, may be the most important organisation Australian lawyers have never heard of. Its global standards underpin Australia’s AML/CTF Tranche 2 reforms, shaping how legal practices onboard clients, assess risk and help prevent financial crime. This episode explains why the regime exists, how Australia fell behind its global counterparts and the practical steps lawyers need to be taking as the reforms come into effect from 1 July 2026. Guest: Tim Goodrick, Partner, Financial Crime, KPMG Australia Former Acting Director of the FATF Training and Research Institute and former financial crime policy lead at the Attorney-General’s Department Specialist in AML/CTF system design, financial crime policy and global AML standards www.kpmg.com/au/en/contacts/g/timothy-goodrick.html www.au.linkedin.com/in/timothygoodrick Host: Artemis Evangelidis, Law Institute of Victoria [email protected] | www.linkedin.com/company/law-institute-of-victoria Episode Overview: The Financial Action Task Force, or FATF, is the global standard-setter behind anti-money laundering and counter-terrorism financing laws, but its influence is often invisible to legal practitioners. This episode explains how FATF reshaped the global financial crime system, why Australia’s Tranche 2 reforms now extend AML/CTF obligations to designated services provided by lawyers, and what this means for everyday practice. Tim Goodrick outlines the practical impact of risk-based AML/CTF compliance on customer due diligence, beneficial ownership checks, suspicious matter reporting and legal professional privilege. The discussion is designed for practitioners who need to understand why the regime exists, whether they provide designated services, how to identify risk in routine work and practical steps to implementation. Topics & Timestamps: [00:04] Welcome to Cross-Examined [00:12] Episode introduction and AML/CTF Tranche 2 overview [00:54] Why lawyers need to understand FATF [01:14] FATF – the most important body you’ve never heard of [03:24] How Australia moved from model jurisdiction to compliance gaps [07:05] Real-world harms the AML/CTF regime is designed to prevent [09:06] What Tranche 2 means in practice for lawyers [12:24] Professional resistance and lessons from New Zealand [15:22] Legal professional privilege and confidential instructions [18:10] What the regime means for sole practitioners and smaller firms [20:35] First steps for lawyers who have not started yet [22:50] Closing remarks [22:57] Resources, show notes and AML/CTF mini-series reminder Key Takeaways: FATF is not a domestic regulator. It is an inter-governmental standard-setter that assesses how countries combat money laundering, terrorism financing and proliferation financing Australia helped build the global AML system but has fallen behind FATF standards in areas involving lawyers, accountants, real estate agents and other professional services AML/CTF compliance is not only about paperwork. The regime is designed to protect communities by helping law enforcement follow the money behind serious and organised crime Lawyers may be exposed to money laundering risk through ordinary work involving property, trusts, companies, client money and beneficial ownership structures Tranche 2 introduces practical obligations including AUSTRAC enrolment, risk assessments, AML programs, customer due diligence, ongoing monitoring and suspicious matter reporting Legal professional privilege remains important, but practitioners need to understand the distinction between privileged legal advice and transactional services The first practical step is to identify whether the services provided fall under designated services, then map the regulated parts of the business and build the AML/CTF program into daily operations Resources & Links: LIV AML/CTF Hub – Guidance for legal practitioners on designated services, enrolment, AML/CTF programs and Tranche 2 obligations | www.liv.asn.au/web/content/resource_knowledge_centre/anti-money-laundering-and-counter-terrorism-financing-for-solicitors.aspx Follow the Money: Financial Crime, AML and Risk Series – LIV education series supporting legal practitioners to understand AML/CTF changes and compliance obligations | www.liv.asn.au/amlcpd Essential AML/CTF resources – Law Institute Journal resource article for practitioners preparing for the new AML/CTF obligations | www.liv.asn.au/web/law_institute_journal_and_news/web/lij/year/2026/06june/aml-ctf-resources.aspx FATF Australia Follow-Up Report 2024 – Australia’s current FATF technical compliance ratings and remaining deficiencies | www.fatf-gafi.org/en/publications/Mutualevaluations/Australia-fur-2024.html AUSTRAC AML/CTF Reform webpage – AUSTRAC information on reform, Tranche 2 entities, obligations and preparation resources | www.austrac.gov.au/amlctf-reform-webpage-home-everything-reform AUSTRAC AML/CTF Rules release and upcoming guidance – AUSTRAC update on 2025 Rules, commencement dates and guidance for newly regulated entities | www.austrac.gov.au/amlctf-rules-release-and-upcoming-guidance Asia/Pacific Group on Money Laundering – Australia country page and mutual evaluation materials | apgml.org/about-us/members/members/australia Anti-Money Laundering and Counter-Terrorism Financing Act 2006 (Cth) – Principal legislation for Australia’s AML/CTF regime | www.legislation.gov.au/C2006A00169/latest/text About This Podcast: Cross-Examined is a new podcast from the Law Institute of Victoria. Tune in to hear experts discuss hot topics in the law and the changes shaping the legal profession. Regular episodes will cover everything from AI and cyber threats to ethical dilemmas, workplace taboos and practice management insights. This podcast is recorded on the traditional lands of the Wurundjeri people of the Kulin Nation. The Law Institute of Victoria acknowledges the Traditional Custodians of Country across Australia. We pay our respects to Elders past and present. Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational purposes only and is not intended to replace professional legal advice. The views expressed in this podcast do not necessarily reflect the views of the Law Institute of Victoria (LIV). The LIV is not responsible for any losses, damages or liabilities that may arise from the use of this podcast. Listeners should seek independent legal advice for their matters. Production Information: Produced by: The Law Institute of Victoria Producer and audio editor: Garreth Hanley Music: Garreth Hanley Copy and show notes: Louise Surette Connect With Us: Email: [email protected] Website: www.liv.asn.au LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/company/law-institute-of-victoria Apple Podcasts: podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/cross-examined/id1858765728 Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/0zvyk5xia4wYv9YWcXphgV

Episode Summary: Cybersecurity failures rarely start with sophisticated hacks. They start with exploiting everyday habits and loopholes that are easy to overlook. In this episode, we unpack cybersecurity for lawyers with one clear message: prevention is better, and much cheaper to implement, than the cure. Guest: • Chris Schwinghamer, Chief Information Officer, Victorian Legal Services Board and Commissioner • Specialist in digital strategy, cybersecurity and data governance in regulatory environments • https://au.linkedin.com/in/chrisschwinghamer Host: • Jayne Gurton, Law Institute of Victoria • [email protected] | https://www.linkedin.com/company/law-institute-of-victoria Episode Overview: Cybersecurity and cyber risk mitigation for lawyers is no longer just about anticipating and preparing for the worst case scenario. It is about managing routine tasks and habit. In this episode, Chris Schwinghamer explains why law practices are attractive targets for cyber crime and how simple behaviours can significantly reduce exposure. The discussion covers cyber hygiene in legal practice, including password management, multi-factor authentication, software updates, phishing awareness and safer use of social media. We also explore remote work risks, public Wi-Fi, VPN use and protecting devices when travelling or working outside the office. This episode focuses on practical, low-cost actions that support client confidentiality, professional obligations and compliance with minimum cybersecurity expectations. Topics & Timestamps: • 02:55 Common cybersecurity vulnerabilities in law firms • 04:44 Strong passwords, passphrases and password managers • 06:36 Why software updates matter for ransomware prevention • 08:28 Phishing red flags and business email compromise • 10:55 Social media hygiene and over sharing risks • 12:29 VPNs, public Wi−Fi and remote work security • 13:50 Securing devices when working outside the office • 15:12 Where to find trusted cybersecurity resources Key Takeaways: • Cybersecurity risk often comes from small, routine decisions rather than major system failures • Law practices are high-value targets because of the sensitive information they hold • Long, memorable passphrases and password managers reduce password-related breaches • Keeping systems updated is a critical defence against ransomware • Urgency, impersonation and unusual requests are key phishing warning signs • Simple habits like pausing to verify requests prevent costly cyber incidents Resources & Links: • LIV Cybersecurity Hub – Centralised guidance and CPD resources for practitioners | https://www.liv.asn.au/cybersecurityhub • Law Institute Journal – Cybersecurity and professional obligations – Editorial analysis linking cyber risk to legal duties | https://www.liv.asn.au/web/law_institute_journal_and_news/web/lij/year/2024/09september/practice_management__securing_your_practice_from_cyber_risk.aspx • VLSB+C Cybersecurity Guidance – Regulator guidance on why cybersecurity is a professional obligation | https://lsbc.vic.gov.au/lawyers/practising-law/cybersecurity • Minimum Cybersecurity Expectations – VLSB+C standards for Victorian law practices | https://lsbc.vic.gov.au/lawyers/practising-law/cybersecurity/minimum-cybersecurity-expectations About This Podcast: Cross-Examined is a new podcast from the Law Institute of Victoria. Tune in to hear experts discuss hot topics in the law and the changes shaping the legal profession. Regular episodes will cover everything from AI and cyber threats to ethical dilemmas, workplace taboos and practice management insights. This podcast is recorded on the traditional lands of the Wurundjeri people of the Kulin Nation. The Law Institute of Victoria acknowledges the Traditional Custodians of Country across Australia. We pay our respects to Elders past and present. Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational purposes only and is not intended to replace professional legal advice. The views expressed in this podcast do not necessarily reflect the views of the Law Institute of Victoria (LIV). The LIV is not responsible for any losses, damages or liabilities that may arise from the use of this podcast. Listeners should seek independent legal advice for their matters. Production Information: • Produced by: The Law Institute of Victoria • Producer and audio editor: Garreth Hanley • Music: Garreth Hanley • Copy and show notes: Louise Surette Connect With Us Email: [email protected] Website: https://liv.asn.au LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/law-institute-of-victoria Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/cross-examined/id1858765728 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0zvyk5xia4wYv9YWcXphgV

Episode Title: Cyber incident fallout: What happens when the proverbial bits hit the fan? Episode Summary: When a cyber breach strikes, the technical problems are only the beginning. In this episode, we examine cyber incident fallout and what really happens inside a law firm once an attack is discovered. From regulatory obligations to client conversations and reputational risk, this discussion unpacks the hard realities lawyers face in the aftermath of a breach. Guest: • Cameron Whittfield, Partner, Herbert Smith Freehills Kramer • Specialist in cybersecurity, information security and emerging technology law • Market-leading adviser on major cyber incident response across Australia • www.linkedin.com/company/herbert-smith-freehills • www.hsfkramer.com/our-people/c/cameron-whittfield Host: • Jayne Gurton, Law Institute of Victoria • [email protected] | https://www.linkedin.com/company/law-institute-of-victoria Episode Overview: Cyber incidents are no longer rare occurrences for law firms, but an inevitable eventuality with long-lasting consequences. This episode focuses on cyber incident fallout and the legal and human challenges that follow a breach. Cameron Whittfield explains what those first chaotic hours in the aftermath of a cyber incident look like, why early decisions on communications and privilege are so difficult to undo, and what regulatory obligations such as the Notifiable Data Breaches scheme need to be planned for and actioned. . This discussion offers practical insights into post breach response and communication, stakeholder relationships and performing under pressure during a crisis. Listeners will learn why preparation matters even more than technology spend and how reputations are shaped by what happens in the aftermath of a breach as much as the breach itself. Topics & Timestamps: • 01:34 The first call – what it feels like when a breach is first discovered • 05:15 Bringing calm and structure to the first 48 hours • 07:16 The human impact inside a firm during a cyber crisis • 09:31 Where responses go wrong and why communication matters • 12:48 Client conversations and professional obligations after a breach • 14:42 Common mistakes firms keep repeating • 29:50 What good preparation looks like Key Takeaways: • The first 48 hours after a cyber incident shape legal, regulatory and reputational outcomes for years • Early communications decisions cannot be undone and require careful judgment • Blame cultures undermine effective crisis response and information sharing • Legal professional privilege must be managed carefully without blocking response efforts • Client trust depends on transparency, process and timing after a breach • Preparation and planning matter more than the size of a firm’s IT budget Resources & Links: • LIV Cybersecurity Hub – Practical guidance and resources for Victorian legal practitioners | http://www.liv.asn.au/cybersecurityhub • LIJ: Cyber risk and law firms – Analysis of cyber security obligations for legal practices | https://www.liv.asn.au/web/law_institute_journal_and_news/web/lij/year/2025/02february/law_firms_and_cyber_risk.aspx • Office of the Australian Information Commissioner – Notifiable Data Breaches scheme overview | https://www.oaic.gov.au/privacy/notifiable-data-breaches • Australian Cyber Security Centre – Cyber security guidance for professional services firms | https://www.cyber.gov.au • Privacy Act 1988 (Cth) – Legislative framework governing data breaches | http://www.legislation.gov.au/C2004A03712/latest/text • Herbert Smith Freehills Kramer Cybersecurity Practice – Insight into cyber incident response | https://www.hsfkramer.com/insights/2023-06/surging-cyber-incidents-regulatory-activity-and-class-claims-in-australia About This Podcast: Cross-Examined is a new podcast from the Law Institute of Victoria. Tune in to hear experts discuss hot topics in the law and the changes shaping the legal profession. Regular episodes will cover everything from AI and cyber threats to ethical dilemmas, workplace taboos and practice management insights. This podcast is recorded on the traditional lands of the Wurundjeri people of the Kulin Nation. The Law Institute of Victoria acknowledges the Traditional Custodians of Country across Australia. We pay our respects to Elders past and present. Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational purposes only and is not intended to replace professional legal advice. The views expressed in this podcast do not necessarily reflect the views of the Law Institute of Victoria (LIV). The LIV is not responsible for any losses, damages or liabilities that may arise from the use of this podcast. Listeners should seek independent legal advice for their matters. Production Information: • Produced by: The Law Institute of Victoria • Producer and audio editor: Garreth Hanley • Music: Garreth Hanley • Copy and show notes: Louise Surette Connect With Us: Email: [email protected] Website: https://liv.asn.au LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/law-institute-of-victoria Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/cross-examined/id1858765728 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0zvyk5xia4wYv9YWcXphgV