Drew Perkins welcomes back Ted Dintersmith to discuss the urgent need to move away from an education system obsessed with standardized testing and toward one that empowers students to do real, meaningful work. In his new book, Aftermath, and documentary, Multiple Choice, Dintersmith argues that our current system is "perfectly designed" to produce results that are increasingly irrelevant in an age of AI and automation. Links & Resources Mentioned In This Episode Ted Dintersmith.com Book: Aftermath: The Life-Changing Math That Schools Won't Teach You Film: multiplechoicefilm.com The ThoughtStretchers (then TeachThought) Podcast Ep. 115 Let's Talk About What School Could Be (2018) Have some feedback you'd like to share? You can email me at [email protected]. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it and please leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening. A significant portion of this conversation focuses on Ted's critique of the traditional math "treadmill." Drawing from his new book, Ted explores the "What and How" of teaching math. He argues that the current "What"—a heavy focus on symbolic manipulation and rote procedures—is largely obsolete. Regarding the "How," Ted shares inspiring examples of teachers who have moved toward Project-Based Learning kind of instruction. He describes classrooms where math is taught through real-world applications—like analyzing local economic trends—where learning happens through trial, error, and collaborative inquiry. By centering math on student agency, Ted argues we can move from "math trauma" to empowering students to solve complex, non-routine problems. Timestamped Episode Timeline [00:04:15] Introduction to Ted Dintersmith – From venture capital to a 50-state tour investigating the future of education. [00:09:30] The Flaw in the System – Why our schools are designed for a world that no longer exists. [00:15:45] The Math Treadmill – Ted breaks down why our current math curriculum is a "filter" rather than a foundation. [00:22:10] The "What" of Math – Shifting from symbolic manipulation to data literacy and quantitative reasoning. [00:28:40] The "How" of Math – Using real-world problems to teach mathematical thinking instead of rote procedures. [00:35:15] The Impact of AI – How generative AI makes the "calculational" aspect of math a commodity. [00:43:05] Defining PEAK Learning – Breaking down Purpose, Essential Skills, Agency, and Knowledge. [00:52:20] Performance-Based Assessment – Moving toward portfolios and "defense of learning" models. [01:05:30] Advice for Parents – How to advocate for a more meaningful educational experience for your children. [01:12:45] Closing Remarks – Where to find Ted's books and follow his ongoing work in school reform.