GrowthBusters
GrowthBusters

GrowthBusters

Dave Gardner and Stephanie Gardner on sustainability

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Humankind has outgrown the planet, so we explore ways to recover from growth addiction. We dig into the more fascinating and hard-hitting aspects of public policy and the joy of living sustainably. It's all about ending our culture's love affair with "more," which is not making us happier and is killing our planet. No half-hearted greenwashing here; we share the brutal and joyful truth! Co-host Dave Gardner directed the documentary GrowthBusters: Hooked on Growth, which Stanford Biologist Paul Ehrlich declared "could be the most important film ever made." Learn more about the film at www.growthbustersmovie.org. Co-host Stephanie Gardner earned a masters degree in environmental law and policy, and has expertise and experience in sustainable energy.

Recent Episodes

97: The Wit and Wisdom of Paul Ehrlich
APR 10, 2026
97: The Wit and Wisdom of Paul Ehrlich
Continuing our tribute to the late Paul Ehrlich, we discuss the critiques and praise that followed news of his passing, and we share a VERY candid – and charming – "uncensored" 2020 Earth Day conversation. Paul points out a flaw on the cover of The Population Bomb. Can you guess what it is? Listen to find out. In our prelude and epilogue, we discuss his acerbic wit – was it helpful or did it hurt the cause of overshoot literacy? One fact is certain: Paul wasn't boring. What if thousands of scientists around the world spoke with Ehrlich's level of candor about the state of the world, and how tenuous our future really is as we continue deeper and deeper into overshoot? Plus, learn some interesting details about his relationship with Johnny Carson and NBC, failures of the university system, the relationship between population and pandemics, comparative advantage, and the vulnerability of our food system. MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE: GrowthBusters Earth Day Film Festival https://earthdayfilmfestival.com Paul Ehrlich – Uncensored on Earth Day 50th Anniversary – Episode 43 of the GrowthBusters podcasthttps://www.growthbusters.org/paul-ehrlich-unfiltered/ Paul Ehrlich on The Limits to Growth - Episdoe 70 of the GrowthBusters podcast https://www.growthbusters.org/ehrlich-limits-to-growth/ Paul Ehrlich (1932-2026): Behaving Against Our Interests – Episode 96 of the GrowthBusters podcast https://www.growthbusters.org/paul-ehrlich-behaving-against-our-interests/ Paul Ehrlich, a Scientific/Environmental/Cultural Iconoclast (1932-2026) – by Dave Gardner on Substackhttps://davetheplanet.substack.com/p/paul-ehrlich-a-scientificenvironmentalcultural Goodbye Paul Ehrlich – The Overpopulation Projecthttps://overpopulation-project.com/goodbye-paul-ehrlich/ The Vindication of a Public Scholar – by Tom Turner https://www.earthisland.org/journal/index.php/magazine/entry/the_vindication_of_a_public_scholar/ Did Paul Ehrlich Help or Hurt His Cause? – by Joshua Spodeckhttps://joshuaspodek.com/did-paul-ehrlich-help-or-hurt-his-cause The Wisest One in the Room - by Thomas Gilovich and Lee Rosshttps://www.goodreads.com/book/show/25205421-the-wisest-one-in-the-room Ecoscience: Population, Resources, Environment – by Paul R. Ehrlich, John P. Holdren and Anne H. Ehrlichhttps://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6348326-ecoscience Give Us Feedback: Record a voice message for us to play on the podcast: 719-402-1400 Send an email to podcast at growthbusters.org The GrowthBusters theme song was written and produced by Jake Fader and sung by Carlos Jones. https://www.fadermusicandsound.com/ https://carlosjones.com/ On the GrowthBusters podcast, we come to terms with the limits to growth, explore the joy of sustainable living, and provide a recovery program from our society's growth addiction (economic/consumption and population). This podcast is part of the GrowthBusters project to raise awareness of overshoot and end our culture's obsession with, and pursuit of, growth. Dave Gardner directed the documentary GrowthBusters: Hooked on Growth, which Stanford Biologist Paul Ehrlich declared "could be the most important film ever made." Co-host, and self-described "energy nerd," Stephanie Gardner has degrees in Environmental Studies and Environmental Law & Policy. Join the GrowthBusters online community https://growthbusters.groups.io/ GrowthBusters: Hooked on Growth – free on YouTube https://youtu.be/_w0LiBsVFBo Join the conversation on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/GrowthBustersPodcast/ Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/growthbusting/ Follow us on Bluesky https://bsky.app/profile/growthbusters.bsky.social Make a donation to support this non-profit project. https://www.growthbusters.org/donate/ Archive of GrowthBusters podcast episodes http://www.growthbusters.org/podcast/ Subscribe to GrowthBusters email updates https://lp.constantcontact.com/su/umptf6w/signup Explore the issues at http://www.growthbusters.org View the GrowthBusters channel on YouTube Follow the podcast so you don't miss an episode:
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87 MIN
96: Paul Ehrlich (1932-2026): Behaving Against Our Interests
MAR 18, 2026
96: Paul Ehrlich (1932-2026): Behaving Against Our Interests
We lost scientific and environmental icon Paul Ehlich on March 13. We're honoring his memory by revisiting Dave Gardner's first interview with Paul, outside his Stanford University office in 2007 for the documentary, GrowthBusters: Hooked on Growth. Ehrlich was most famous for authoring, with wife Anne Ehrlich, the bestselling 1968 book, The Population Bomb. While the book inspired widespread concern about human overpopulation, those who profited from growth worked to discredit the book, the scientist, and the notion that human numbers above 2 or 3 billion would seriously harm our life-supporting ecosystems. Undaunted by the critics, Ehrlich spent the next 58 years speaking the truth that we were testing very real limits to growth. We'll devote several episodes of the GrowthBusters podcast to this smart and fearless scientist. This episode reprises episode 110 of the Conversation Earth syndicated radio series. LINKS: Conversation Earth radio series: http://www.conversationearth.org/episode-list/ GrowthBusters Podcast episodes featuring Paul Ehrlich: #70 Paul Ehrlich on The Limits to Growth: https://www.growthbusters.org/ehrlich-limits-to-growth/ #43 Paul Ehrlich Uncensored on Earth Day 50th Anniversary: https://www.growthbusters.org/ehrlich-earth-day-2020/ New York Times obituary: https://www.nytimes.com/2026/03/15/books/paul-r-ehrlich-dead.html The Population Bomb: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Population_Bomb One With Nineveh – by Paul and Anne Ehrlich: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/282038.One_With_Nineveh Meeting the Challenges of Population, Environment, and Resources: The Costs of Inaction – by Paul Ehrlich, Kenneth Arrow, E.O. Wilson and others: https://documents1.worldbank.org/curated/en/820031468764393924/pdf/multi-page.pdf Underestimating the Challenges of Avoiding a Ghastly Future – by Paul Ehrlich, Anne Ehrlich, William Ripple, Eileen Crist and others: https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fcosc.2020.615419/full GrowthBusters: Hooked on Growth (documentary by Dave Gardner): https://growthbustersmovie.org Give Us Feedback: Record a voice message for us to play on the podcast: 719-402-1400 Send an email to podcast at growthbusters.org The GrowthBusters theme song was written and produced by Jake Fader and sung by Carlos Jones. https://www.fadermusicandsound.com/ https://carlosjones.com/ On the GrowthBusters podcast, we come to terms with the limits to growth, explore the joy of sustainable living, and provide a recovery program from our society's growth addiction (economic/consumption and population). This podcast is part of the GrowthBusters project to raise awareness of overshoot and end our culture's obsession with, and pursuit of, growth. Dave Gardner directed the documentary GrowthBusters: Hooked on Growth, which Stanford Biologist Paul Ehrlich declared "could be the most important film ever made." Co-host, and self-described "energy nerd," Stephanie Gardner has degrees in Environmental Studies and Environmental Law & Policy. Join the GrowthBusters online community https://growthbusters.groups.io/ GrowthBusters: Hooked on Growth – free on YouTube https://youtu.be/_w0LiBsVFBo Join the conversation on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/GrowthBustersPodcast/ Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/growthbusting/ Follow us on Bluesky https://bsky.app/profile/growthbusters.bsky.social Make a donation to support this non-profit project. https://www.growthbusters.org/donate/ Archive of GrowthBusters podcast episodes http://www.growthbusters.org/podcast/ Subscribe to GrowthBusters email updates https://lp.constantcontact.com/su/umptf6w/signup Explore the issues at http://www.growthbusters.org View the GrowthBusters channel on YouTube Follow the podcast so you don't miss an episode:
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32 MIN
95: Technology – Fast and Furious Into Overshoot
DEC 10, 2025
95: Technology – Fast and Furious Into Overshoot
The academy awarding the Nobel Prize in Economics is still drinking pro-growth Kool-Aid, while spiritual leader Acharya Prashant is serving up a healthier recipe - insightful truth about ecological overshoot. We examine both in this episode. Technology headlines much of the conversation. "Technology is not a way out of overshoot; it is a slower way in," according to Prashant. MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE: Nobel Prize press release: https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/economic-sciences/2025/press-release/ How Technological Progress Leads to Economic Growth, An Interview With 2025 Nobel Prize Winner Joel Mokyr: https://a16zcrypto.com/posts/article/joel-mokyr-tech-progress-economic-growth/ About The Sorcerer's Apprentice: https://disney.fandom.com/wiki/The_Sorcerer%27s_Apprentice The Sorcerer's Apprentice – Part 1: https://youtu.be/B4M-54cEduo?si=eiOZ_0vIc8sxMAtX The Sorcerer's Apprentice – Part 2: https://youtu.be/m-W8vUXRfxU?si=b8FnR0-zr8dk1wOm The Sorcerer's Apprentice – Part 3: https://youtu.be/GFiWEjCedzY?si=XouPPdP5FfS1OJ9p One Greed Six Earths: The Inner Emptiness Behind Global Consumption – by Acharya Prashant in the Sunday Guardian: https://sundayguardianlive.com/feature/one-greed-six-earths-the-inner-emptiness-behind-global-consumption-161464/ Acharya Prashant: https://acharyaprashant.org/ Give Us Feedback: Record a voice message for us to play on the podcast: 719-402-1400 Send an email to podcast at growthbusters.org The GrowthBusters theme song was written and produced by Jake Fader and sung by Carlos Jones. https://www.fadermusicandsound.com/ https://carlosjones.com/ On the GrowthBusters podcast, we come to terms with the limits to growth, explore the joy of sustainable living, and provide a recovery program from our society's growth addiction (economic/consumption and population). This podcast is part of the GrowthBusters project to raise awareness of overshoot and end our culture's obsession with, and pursuit of, growth. Dave Gardner directed the documentary GrowthBusters: Hooked on Growth, which Stanford Biologist Paul Ehrlich declared "could be the most important film ever made." Co-host, and self-described "energy nerd," Stephanie Gardner has degrees in Environmental Studies and Environmental Law & Policy. Join the GrowthBusters online community https://growthbusters.groups.io/ GrowthBusters: Hooked on Growth – free on YouTube https://youtu.be/_w0LiBsVFBo Join the conversation on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/GrowthBustersPodcast/ Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/growthbusting/ Follow us on Bluesky https://bsky.app/profile/growthbusters.bsky.social Make a donation to support this non-profit project. https://www.growthbusters.org/donate/ Archive of GrowthBusters podcast episodes http://www.growthbusters.org/podcast/ Subscribe to GrowthBusters email updates https://lp.constantcontact.com/su/umptf6w/signup Explore the issues at http://www.growthbusters.org View the GrowthBusters channel on YouTube Follow the podcast so you don't miss an episode:
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20 MIN
94: Reporting on Population – Sense and Nonsense
NOV 18, 2025
94: Reporting on Population – Sense and Nonsense
Population growth is making headlines for the wrong reason or with a biased perspective. It's too easy to draw erroneous conclusions about dropping fertility rates around the world. A surge of news stories from NPR compels us to offer both praise and criticism. Population growth appears to be coming to an end, and that's getting all the oxygen, not the fact that we have an overpopulation crisis. In fact, the word "overpopulation" is not heard even once in the 16 stories we analyzed. Because the subject is brushed under the rug, reported infrequently or inaccurately, widespread misunderstandings among the public and policymakers persist. So, we decided 16 stories about "smaller families," "low birth rates," "depopulation," and "population decline" in 4 months from National Public Radio offered a good opportunity for us to do some analysis and offer suggestions. Our hope is that reporting might improve if journalists listen to this episode. We specifically mention NPR's Scott Simon, Brian Mann, Sarah McCammon, and Michel Martin. We also mention Wellesley College economist Phillip Levine, and offer some praise for The Rewilding Institute's John Davis. And we hear briefly from the U.N.'s Vladimira Kantorova in one of the stories. The work of these journalists also appeared in the NPR series: John Ruwitch, Jasmine Ling, Kristin Wright, Marisa Peñaloza, Hanna Merzbach, Christina Cala, Dalia Mortada, Michelle Jokisch Polo, Clara Hulet, Anthony Kuhn, Ayman Oghanna, and Code Switch podcast hosts Gene Demby and B.A. Parker. NOTE: The image representing this episode was AI generated. MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE: Population Shift: How Smaller Families are Changing the World (NPR series): https://www.npr.org/series/g-s1-94348/population-shift Seven of Nine Planetary Boundaries Now Breached: https://www.stockholmresilience.org/news--events/general-news/2025-09-24-seven-of-nine-planetary-boundaries-now-breached.html Fair Start Movement: https://fairstartmovement.org/model/ World Population Day: Rights of Children Eclipse What Parents "Want" – by Dave Gardner: https://medium.com/ending-overshoot/world-population-day-rights-of-children-eclipse-what-parents-want-e737d7b60d1b World Scientists Warnings: https://scientistswarning.org/warnings/ The Racial History of the 'Overpopulation Time Bomb' and 'Pronatalism' MovementsHeard on Morning Edition, reported by Gene Demby and Michel Martinhttps://www.npr.org/2025/10/28/nx-s1-5551128/the-racial-history-of-the-overpopulation-time-bomb-and-pronatalism-movements How Elon Musk and JD Vance Plan to 'Save Civilization' With More Babies – episode of Code Switch podcast, with Christina Cala, Dalia Mortada, Gene Demby and B.A. Parkerhttps://www.npr.org/2025/10/29/nx-s1-5588605/how-elon-musk-and-jd-vance-plan-to-save-civilization-with-more-babies Busting Only-Child Myths – episode of Overshoot podcast: https://www.populationbalance.org/podcast/lauren-sandler The Only Child: Debunking the Myths – Time magazine story by Lauren Sandler: http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,2002530,00.html One and Only: The Freedom of Having an Only Child, and The Joy of Being One – book by Lauren Sandlerhttps://www.laurenosandler.com/the-book Insist That Public Policy Respects the Rights of Children and Women – by Dave Gardnerhttps://fairstartmovement.org/insist-that-public-policy-respects-the-rights-of-children-and-women/ Economic Wisdom from the Natural World: The Serviceberry - episode 92 of the GrowthBusters podcast: https://www.growthbusters.org/serviceberry/ Book Club Choice:Abundant Earth Offers a Positive Vision for the Future – review of Abundant Earth, by Eileen Crist: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/animal-emotions/201904/abundant-earth-offers-positive-vision-the-future In Memory of Jane Goodall, Outspoken on Overpopulation – by Dave Gardnerhttps://davetheplanet.substack.com/p/in-memory-of-jane-goodall-outspoken Dave the Planet - Dave's Substack Column: https://davetheplanet.substack.com/ Give Us Feedback: Record a voice message for us to play on the podcast: 719-402-1400 Send an email to podcast at growthbusters.org The GrowthBusters theme song was written and produced by Jake Fader and sung by Carlos Jones. https://www.fadermusicandsound.com/ https://carlosjones.com/ On the GrowthBusters podcast, we come to terms with the limits to growth, explore the joy of sustainable living, and provide a recovery program from our society's growth addiction (economic/consumption and population). This podcast is part of the GrowthBusters project to raise awareness of overshoot and end our culture's obsession with, and pursuit of, growth. Dave Gardner directed the documentary GrowthBusters: Hooked on Growth, which Stanford Biologist Paul Ehrlich declared "could be the most important film ever made." Co-host, and self-described "energy nerd," Stephanie Gardner has degrees in Environmental Studies and Environmental Law & Policy. Join the GrowthBusters online community https://growthbusters.groups.io/ GrowthBusters: Hooked on Growth – free on YouTube https://youtu.be/_w0LiBsVFBo Join the conversation on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/GrowthBustersPodcast/ Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/growthbusting/ Follow us on Bluesky https://bsky.app/profile/growthbusters.bsky.social Make a donation to support this non-profit project. https://www.growthbusters.org/donate/ Archive of GrowthBusters podcast episodes http://www.growthbusters.org/podcast/ Subscribe to GrowthBusters email updates https://lp.constantcontact.com/su/umptf6w/signup Explore the issues at http://www.growthbusters.org View the GrowthBusters channel on YouTube
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52 MIN
93: Ezra Klein's Abundance Delusion
AUG 29, 2025
93: Ezra Klein's Abundance Delusion
Just say "NO." Some approaches to "abundance" are healthy, but one brand of abundance that's been capturing the cultural moment lately is a recipe for a dead planet. Dave and Stephanie assess key points made by Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson in their book, Abundance. The result, a sound thrashing. The authors believe "America needs to build and invent more of the things it needs." They advocate eliminating regulatory barriers that are keeping us from getting more, faster. Conservation and environmental stewardship are not on the agenda. Klein is a columnist for The New York Times and host of The Ezra Klein Show. Derek is a writer at The Atlantic and host of the Plain English podcast. They lean left, so many are suggesting the Democratic party should adopt "the abundance agenda" as it remakes itself in the wake of 2024 electoral defeat. In this episode, we make the case against that. We're not alone. Among the links we provide below are some additional thoughtful and articulate critiques of the book and agenda. MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE: Economic Wisdom from the Natural World: The Serviceberry – episode 92 of the GrowthBusters podcasthttps://www.growthbusters.org/serviceberry/ Abundance – by Ezra Klein and Derek Thompsonhttps://www.goodreads.com/book/show/176444106-abundance The Elite's Fixation with Low Birth Rates – Overshoot podcast episode with Samuel Miller McDonaldhttps://www.populationbalance.org/podcast/samuel-miller-mcdonald An Abundance of Concrete – by Ben Goldfarbhttps://defector.com/an-abundance-of-concrete Colorado Matters episode with Ben Goldfarbhttps://www.cpr.org/2025/06/27/interview-ben-goldfarb-state-of-conservation/ Bezos: We're Going to Need Another Planet – episode 89 of the GrowthBusters podcasthttps://www.growthbusters.org/bezos-need-another-planet/ On Abundance - by The Last Farmhttps://www.resilience.org/stories/2025-07-16/on-abundance (Note: a good critique of "abundance" but a narrow solution. It's a good part of the solution, but not complete.) Give Us Feedback: Record a voice message for us to play on the podcast: 719-402-1400 Send an email to podcast at growthbusters.org The GrowthBusters theme song was written and produced by Jake Fader and sung by Carlos Jones. https://www.fadermusicandsound.com/ https://carlosjones.com/ On the GrowthBusters podcast, we come to terms with the limits to growth, explore the joy of sustainable living, and provide a recovery program from our society's growth addiction (economic/consumption and population). This podcast is part of the GrowthBusters project to raise awareness of overshoot and end our culture's obsession with, and pursuit of, growth. Dave Gardner directed the documentary GrowthBusters: Hooked on Growth, which Stanford Biologist Paul Ehrlich declared "could be the most important film ever made." Co-host, and self-described "energy nerd," Stephanie Gardner has degrees in Environmental Studies and Environmental Law & Policy. Join the GrowthBusters online community https://growthbusters.groups.io/ GrowthBusters: Hooked on Growth – free on YouTube https://youtu.be/_w0LiBsVFBo Join the conversation on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/GrowthBustersPodcast/ Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/growthbusting/ Follow us on Bluesky https://bsky.app/profile/growthbusters.bsky.social Make a donation to support this non-profit project. https://www.growthbusters.org/donate/ Archive of GrowthBusters podcast episodes http://www.growthbusters.org/podcast/ Subscribe to GrowthBusters email updates https://lp.constantcontact.com/su/umptf6w/signup Explore the issues at http://www.growthbusters.org View the GrowthBusters channel on YouTube Follow the podcast so you don't miss an episode:
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40 MIN