On the day her new book Joyful Anyway releases, Kate pauses before the interviews and travel to reflect on a harder question: what does it mean to talk about joy in a world that feels fractured, exhausting, and uncertain? In this short, personal episode, she pushes back on the pressure to optimize our way into happiness and instead explores a stranger, sturdier kind of joy—one that shows up alongside grief, ordinary stress, and lives that don’t quite match the ones we imagined. With a reading from the book and a few honest reflections, this is an invitation to consider what might be better than happiness—and how joy might still find us anyway. SHOW NOTES Joyful, Anyway by Kate Bowler — Available everywhere books are sold. Tour dates & tickets: katebowler.com/joyfulanyway Watch on YouTube See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.