Dishing with Stephanie's Dish

APR 24, 2026

South Africa on Safari is our next group trip Destination

Original Episode Transcript FollowsStephanie Hansen:Hello, everybody, and welcome to Dishing with Stephanie’s Dish, the podcast where we talk to people in the food space. And also today, we’re going to talk travel, because whenever I travel, food’s always a big part of it. I’m here with my friend Michael Kenny, and he owns the travel agency Defined Destinations. And Michael and I met and have gone on a number of trips. We’ve gone to Croatia together. We’re just about to embark on Turkey. We are also planning a new trip that we just launched, that is a trip to South Africa. And a lot of times the best way to get people excited about these trips is to talk about them.And Michael does more than that. He scouts them out for me first. So, Michael, you went to this trip?Michael Kenney:I did. I’m your personal scout, but I love it. There’s not a. There’s not a better deal than being able to do that and then going on with you and Kurt and with everybody else. So we’ve had some fun adventures. But, yes, I recently got back with my family. We went scouted this South Africa trip out, or Southern Africa, I should say that we visit four different countries. And it was.I’ve been on a safari before, but it was in. In Kenya, which was fabulous as well. But this is a whole different experience. So I brought my wife and my two kids, and we had one of the best experiences, from seeing Cape Town to Johannesburg and then all the wildlife, different lodges and on boats. So we do all these different sorts of transportation and see four different countries. And it was unbelievable. I came back really, really excited. I was excited in the beginning, but having gone on it and then really first experiencing it firsthand was phenomenal.And. And I knew you and Kurt would love it. And of course, everyone that follows you as well. It was just. It’s really a trip of a lifetime.Stephanie Hansen:So we put the trip out there. It is a more expensive trip, and we had a limited number of seats we had that could join the trip. And, you know, I’ve never done a trip that is on the higher end like that in terms of expense. And you’re just. You have a lot of in flight situations within the country. You have a lot of different lodging situations. There’s a boat, like, in order to do all the things we wanted to do, there were a lot of moving parts.Michael Kenney:Yep.Stephanie Hansen:So we put the trip out there and it sold out, like, right away. Right. So then Michael was like, okay, do we want to try and do another one? And of course we do, because I want you guys to have as many of these experiences as we can put together. Because I think traveling this way is great. I love traveling in a group for destinations that maybe I’m not comfortable in fully by myself. So Michael has secured another trip, a second round that is the same itinerary, but they leave. I think it’s a day later.Michael Kenney:Yes. And let me just touch on that. You hit some good points in there. Yeah. One reason the trip, it’s, it’s. It’s definitely at the highest price point we’ve ever offered a trip. But I think if you’re going out there and you’re shopping in African safari, you see that as well. So the value is there with all the different.Essentially all the meals are included where we’re at on, on this trip, the inner flights inside the countries as well. From a couple smaller bush planes to the larger flights that go from Cape Town to Johannesburg, Johannesburg up towards Victoria Falls, etc. Those are already included in all the transfers. And this is a different trip too, Stephanie, because it’s not like a typical motor coach group that you’re going with all these big lodges and motor coaches coming in. This trip is. Can only take 16 people. It’s not because we design it that way, it’s the ship only handles 16 people. So if you go on our website, you take a look at it, you’ll see this small intimate cruiser on this river slash lake, Lake Kariba, which is part of the Zambezi.Stephanie Hansen's @StephaniesDish Newsletter is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.Michael Kenney:And in the game lodge that we stayed at too for four nights as well there, there’s only eight cabins for 16 people. So it’s a real intimate experience and it will only be for our group. Same thing for your departure on May 8 and the 1 that we still have, there’s only. We just sold one another cabin online just, just now. So there’s four cabins left May 9th through the 25th of 2027. Same thing is gonna be true for that. It’s only gonna be our group as well. So there’s no other groups going to be in, on, on the ship and then in the lodge too.Michael Kenney:So it’s a real small intimate experience and it’s just real, real lovely.Stephanie Hansen:Can you walk us through like some of the high points having done this trip?Michael Kenney:Yeah. Oh, what do you start? I think this is just. Sometimes you use the word potpourri too much, but it’s, it’s really a bit of different. You know, you think you go to Africa just for the safari itself, but we go in and we visit Cape Town and Cape Town blew me away. It was one of the most beautiful cities and I’m not necessarily a city person, but it was just beautiful sitting under Table Mountain. We’ll go up to Table Mountain, we’ll go visit the areas around it, we’ll go visit some vineyards. South African wine is to die for. We’ll visit that.We have a wine tasting included. We get to see penguins on this penguin beach in South Africa, which I didn’t know there was penguins in, in South Africa. So we’re actually good to go see those. And you actually get up pretty close too, so that was a real highlight. Nelson Mandela’s home in the prison, we’re going to go visit that. So we have a cultural experience as well. But then we fly into Johannesburg. We’ll get to hear the history in Johannesburg for a night.And then we fly further north and we go into the. Our game lodge. We spend for four days right on the Zambezi River. You’ll absolutely love this place. You’re. You’re really well taken care of. You eat really well and you see the wildlife all around you right from your lodge. You sit in your plunge pool and there could be hippos down below you.It’s incredible. It’s just a real amazing experience. And then we fly to Lake Kariba, we get on the boat itself and we have four nights again. There’s just 16 of us total. And it’s. This is where it’s really different. You glide up into shore and there can be elephants, giraffes, lions feeding in the water itself. It’s.This isn’t a zoo. This is incredible. You are right there with it. That a real slow experience. You’re really able to take it in. So I invite, you know, anybody that’s watching this to go online. Just take a look at our photos. It’s free to do that and we pride ourselves.The majority of all the photos on it were taken while on the trip, especially with me and my family. So you’ll get to really see what it really was, was like. So say you’ve done a trip to Tanzania or Kenya and have done a safari. This is. This is different. You see four different countries. It’s a slower pace, smaller groups. It lovely.So those are really the experiences that I enjoyed the most, were the penguins seeing around Cape Town. Of course, the different game drives all the different wildlife. Victoria Falls, which is one of the most stunning waterfalls you’ll ever see. It was. It was really enlightening and it was fabulous and everything’s taken care of for you. So to Be able to do something on this on your own. To do the same trip would be really difficult. Putting all the flights together, the meals, what are we going to do? We’ve taken care of all of that.All you have to do essentially is register for the trip and then we can help you with getting international airfare when it does come available later in the summer for this May 9th through the 25th, 2027 trip. So it, it was just an amazing experience.Stephanie Hansen:So can you talk a little bit about the food? Because I have no idea what African food is going to be like.Michael Kenney:Yeah, I, I think this, it’s not like we’re out eating street food, you know, in some of the villages we’re not doing that. It’s all in a controlled environment from the salads to things like that because you want to drink bottled water. We never got sick while on the trip itself, but it’s, it’s real, it’s westernized, let’s say that. So a lot of meat and potatoes and fish and different things like that. So there won’t be anything a little bit, I think outside of your comfort zone. So I, we really, really. Well, like lots of beef, chicken, sometimes there’d be lamb, but you can have choices too. So they’re really great with diets with that.But again, the food was really safe. Nothing too exotic. You have a chance. Maybe you want to try ostrich or something like that. You can do that. But it’s a real, it’s really high level too. Especially at the lodges and the boats itself. All sit down plated meals.Really, really nice. But again it’s, it’s, it’s safer on the meat and potato side on that. But it’s, it’s really nice high end food which you’ll, I think I, I know you’ll enjoy.Stephanie Hansen:Yeah. And was there different fruit?Michael Kenney:Yeah, some of the fruits, I can’t remember. You’d be like, well, what is that? I don’t know. Honestly, I wish I had the list on there. Like, well, what is that? Well, let’s, let’s try it. If you’re in the markets and things like that. But they, they do, especially in the mornings they’ll bring some fruits on, on the plate and you’ll have, you’re like, well what? And you just try it. So yeah, I’m not really good to help you on that. I’m sorry.No, but it’s there exotic fruits wheneverStephanie Hansen:we’re traveling because we went to Thailand together. We’ve been to Vietnam, Cambodia, whenever we’re Traveling in these countries, there’s always fruits that I’ve never, I don’t even know what they are like. I’m just always amazed by how many fruits there are in the world.Michael Kenney:Yeah, it’s crazy. Like I said, you go through and you’re like, what is that? Especially on our Vietnam, Cambodia trip here, it’s, that’s, that’s really exotic with the food. This is a little bit different, but yeah, we’re in the southern hemisphere, right down to the Cape of Good Hope, which you’ll actually see too. So you see different, different foods for sure, so they’ll point that out too. But it’s. The main course is definitely not exotic, but you’ll see some really neat, neat, different fruits, things like that.Stephanie Hansen:We talked about South African wines, so I’m glad we’re doing that because that was a blast. So this second itinerary leaves a day later. Will there ever be an opportunity where I will overlap and interact with the second? It’s kind of hard to tell at this point.Michael Kenney:Yeah, it, it really is. And we’ll know a little bit more later on because we’re in, in contact because we’ll have they. The ships. We have two different ships on it and it’s just a day apart, like you said. But we’re in the lodge for four days. Our lodges are different, they’re close by. But we’re working on trying to see maybe if we get a couple game drives together, maybe maybe a meal somewhere that we could see each other once or twice during, or maybe even three times with Cape Town too, that we could run into each other as well. So if you decide to book, because you won’t be on the second trip, the second departure, we’re hoping two or three times we’ll be able to, to, to run in each other.But again, it’s not guaranteed. But we’re very hopeful because both of the ships are completely ours. So I’m sure we can, we can do a little overlapping in our two lodge stays. They’re relatively close, but they’re, they’re different from each other. So we might be able to pop in and visit each other maybe for a happy hour on one of our boats, because each lodge has got like its own beautiful pontoon to go out and go look at the wildlife and we might run into that too, but. Yeah, but other than that, and you’re not being on the second one, their tenders are the same, just different lodges. And they’re both very, very amazing, high quality lodges. And again, if you go Online, you can see both the different boats and the lodges too, which you’ll absolutely love.Stephanie Hansen:I love too, Michael, that you actually took these trips. When I travel with you, you’re very upfront about what, you know, what, you don’t know. We get in country guides if we need more expertise, and a lot of times you want that because you want a local person to share with you the local feel of the place and to give you information based on their perspective of living there or being familiar with the country.Michael Kenney:Yeah, I think that that’s, that’s, that’s really important. People want to not just get the information to make sure it’s correct, but just like what’s life like being you’re from Namibia or Zimbabwe or South Africa and we have these local guides. We have, you know, the folks with us in the lodge and when we’re doing the game drives a professional that will tell you, you know, what you’re seeing, how they, you know, migration or whatever they’re doing and what they consume, all of that. So you’ve got that, that credibility too. So we have that throughout, from our city guides to our, our on land folks as well. You’ll really get that expertise. So you’ll, you’ll come back feeling, you know, about the people itself, which there’s. We could have different podcast talking about that.I loved it. And then, you know, the animals that you’re going to sing like, oh, I didn’t know. It’s, it’s a really educational but rewarding, relaxing trip as well, which you, you, I know you’ll, you’ll enjoy.Stephanie Hansen:Yeah, I’m looking forward to it. And people say that the African people are like just fabulous.Michael Kenney:They are it. And again, I’ve been to Africa a few times not, not to, to these parts. The people are wonderful. And I don’t know if you’re going to bring it up, but the languages. So revisiting different four countries and, and they, they speak different dialects of in. In the different countries and different languages as well, from English to African and wherever, you know, from where their group is from. But they use English as kind of the common language. So you’ll.If we have a little overlap with some of our guides from Namibia to Botswana, they’re going to speak English with each other, which was. I was like, oh, wow. I didn’t, you know, really realize that. So the language is never a problem. Everything’s in English. Even in. Through all of the countries visited. You would see the road signs.It’s all in English, which was like, oh, wow, that’s interesting. But then you get to hear them speaking with each other, their languages and they’ll talk about that too. But I was, I was really surprised about the whole language situation being it really a lot of English.Stephanie Hansen:Yeah, I’m excited about that. Okay, so when we say expensive, can you just say on the podcast how much the trip is? Because I don’t want people not to explore it.Michael Kenney:Oh yeah.Stephanie Hansen:You get so many things and a lot of people that are, you know, TV hosts and that sort of thing are hosting week long trips places and they cost more than this trip costs.Michael Kenney:So yeah, for the, for the land only per person It’s $12,000. And so you, other than that you just need to get your international airfare to and from South Africa. And we have that all written down if you want to look at and for it yourself. But like I mentioned earlier, rates don’t come out availability about 10 months prior to departure. So it’ll be sometime later this summer, maybe in July that you’ll start seeing what rates would be to fly into to Cape Town with that. But again the value is really there. It’s typically double the price that we usually have for our trips going to Europe and other places like that. But I think if you go through it and if you’ve done your research, if you’ve looked at trips to Africa before, you’ll see the value there with all the, all the flights, all the meals, all that included and it, like you said it, it’s sold out right away.People I think understand that too. And we only have a few cabins left on the second departure so hopefully you’re able to join it. But take a look at the website again, it’s free to do that. Look at all the things that we offer, all the inclusions. I think everyone will see the value there for sure.Stephanie Hansen:Yeah, I was just noticing another person going somewhere for a week and it was like 15,000. And I was like, wait, we’re going to Africa, we’re doing all of this great stuff, all the meals are included, it’s over, it’s two week long trip and we’re going on all these game drives. Like this is more than maybe most people would spend on a vacation. But like for a trip of a lifetime it’s very, I thought really well priced. And I went and looked at Nat Geo. I looked at some of the other trips were actually cheaper than those too.Michael Kenney:Yeah. And I think a lot of people are just looking when you, you first look at it too, you want to make sure you’re comparing apples to Apple. So, you know, we encourage you to go out there and shop and look at other companies because I know you’ll come back and you’ll see our value. A lot of them are just maybe doing similar game drives that we’re doing, but they’re not including like Cape Town in it and we are, which is huge. Again, you might not be a city person, but you’re gonna love Cape Town. Not just the city itself, the drives around there, going to, to see the penguins and to go up into the area where the, the vineyards are, it’s abso stunning. So there’s a lot to it. So I encourage everybody to take a look and you’ll again see the value and all the different experiences you’ll haveStephanie Hansen:on this trip and the vibes. Because I’ll be there on the first trip, hopefully I’ll get to overlap with you on the second trip. I don’t want to make any promises we can’t keep, but I feel good that I’ll see you at least once and then we can like talk about all the stuff that we saw when we get back. So it’s going to be just great vibes.Michael Kenney:Exactly. And I already know the majority of the people that from previous trips that have already booked the second departure. So if you’re thinking about it, I’m looking at the name list. There’s some really good people on this, on this trip. So you’re going to have fun. You’ll have a great guides throughout. So it’s yes, they won’t have you incurred on the trip, which is sad, but I think at the same time you’re really going to love, if you’re going for this experience, you’re absolutely going to love it for sure. And we encourage.Send an email to us. Give me a call. I’d be happy to talk to you about the trip itself. But again, having just a few cabins left, I know this one will sell out too. So if you’re on the fence again, give me a call, send me an email. I’d be happy to get you on it because this will be our Last one for 2027, so we’d love to have anybody else join.Stephanie Hansen:I’ll put all that information in the podcast release. Also, it pays to be traveler with us because we have a pretty good list now of people that are repeat travelers and I think that says a lot about you as someone coordinating these trips. I think it says a lot about me as someone that is fun to go on these trips with, like we have someone that’s coming up on, this will be their fourth trip with us. They’re, they’re high end experiences, they’re fun. We don’t take ourselves too seriously. We have a good time. The pacing is right. If you need to peel off because you need a day to just relax, you can usually do that at the different places.It really, I, I feel like while we’re leading a trip, we also understand it’s your trip, not ours. So if you need to do, you know, like, I remember when we did a cooking class, Lori standing up on the bus and saying, well, who wants to do that? And everyone went except for her. And then Kurt went with her, so she wasn’t alone. But again, if the cooking class isn’t your jam, then you can find some way to do something else. So just to see a good time?Michael Kenney:No, it is if this is your vacation. But I honestly think everything that’s in this itinerary, you’re going to want to, to join in. And again, this is a relaxed pace too. But sometimes we have some earlier game drives to, to go see the animals that are out there early in the morning, which you want to do. But then we’ll usually have the afternoon free that you can go into your plunge pool, sit by one of the beautiful trees and have having a cocktail or something like that. So it’s really relaxed as well and you have time to take it in and I think that’s really important. Sometimes everything’s just go, go, go and see how much you can see and do. I mean, we are, we’re going, but we still have that time to sit back and relax.And that’s what’s really fun about even being on the ship. Second, because we’re moving around and, and popping into small little bays and seeing when animals come up through these savannahs. It’s stunning. You’re like, you’re in the comfort of a beautiful boat and you’re going up and there’s, you know, elephants coming down to water, which I loved, or the hippos just down below you. We go fishing one time or a couple times, whatever we want to do. And just the wildlife around you. And it’s like, oh, I’m not in a Minnesota northern lake right now. It’s, it’s pretty spectacular.Michael Kenney:So, Kurt, no swimming off the boat, please. Unlike Kariba with, with knowing, uh, there’s a tiger fish in there. There’s these world famous fish that people like to fish for, the sharp teeth, but it’s more so you got to watch out for those hippos. Of course.Stephanie Hansen:Yeah. Are there crocodiles?Michael Kenney:Yes, there are. So, yes, there’s the crocodiles and the hippos in there. So don’t go in the water.Stephanie Hansen:Yeah.Michael Kenney:But it’s fun to be on our big boat, so it’s, it’s safe and you get up really up close to everything, which is super cool.Stephanie Hansen:All right, well, I’m looking forward to it, Michael. Again, I’ll put all the information in the podcast notes here. Thanks for joining us and I’ll see you. Well, I won’t see you tomorrow because I’m leaving for Turkey a few days early because I like to get there and get fresh before you guys all arrive so that I have a personality. But I’ll see you in a couple days in Turkey.Michael Kenney:That sounds great. Thanks so much, Stephanie.Stephanie Hansen:Okay, bye. Bye.Stephanie Hansen's @StephaniesDish Newsletter is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit <a href="https://stephaniehansen.substack.com/subscribe?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_2">stephaniehansen.substack.com/subscribe</a>

20 MIN

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Tim Niver owner of Mucci's restaurant and Podcast Host of Niver Niver Land

32 MIN

DEC 5, 2025

Kat Lieu's third cookbook has just been included by the Wall Street Journal in their Holiday Gift Guide

Growing up as a Canadian-born Vietnamese Chinese American, Kat Lieu sought comfort in the flavors of her youth, like taro, matcha and black sesame. But she struggled to find a home for herself as a third-culture baker in American bakeries, online, or in cookbooks. In the auspiciously titled <a target="_blank" href="https://amzn.to/4ptIH9z">108 Asian Cookies</a>, Lieu honors the varied and rich tapestry of Asian cultures and ingredients This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit <a href="https://stephaniehansen.substack.com/subscribe?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_2">stephaniehansen.substack.com/subscribe</a>

29 MIN

NOV 14, 2025

Ashley Russell

Original Episode Transcript Follows:Stephanie Hansen:Hello, everybody, and welcome to Dishing with Stephanie’s Dish, the podcast where we talk to people in the food space, a lot of cookbook authors, manufacturers, and people who are doing cool things with food. And Ashley Russell came across my desk, and she has a cookbook that’s called <a target="_blank" href="https://www.whatscookinggoodlookingrecipes.com/?fbclid=PAZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAc3J0YwZhcHBfaWQMMjU2MjgxMDQwNTU4AAGnbtlftyFI1MRXeK7wamiSVgVIMSC8UR-eO5RP3VFXSQt5I7xjOsrrCucJO7Q_aem_0J9g9FbIPayrTYhmNmoWvw">“What’s Cooking Good Looking”.</a> And I was first of all, captured by the illustrations in the book you are working on or have. They were very. How do I describe them? They were like tattoos. They were adorable, and they are original art by @<a target="_blank" href="https://www.instagram.com/sadpuppytattoo/">sadpuppytattoo</a>. When Ashley describes the banana bread of her grandmas, she was generous enough to share the recipe here.Ashley Russell:Yeah.Stephanie Hansen:Tell me about the book and how you decided to illustrate it the way you did. And then I wanted to talk to you specifically about self publishing a book, because I think a lot of people think about it, but they’re not sure how to do it. So I just wanted to get your feedback.Ashley Russell:Totally. So I started this book inspired by my grandma. She passed away in 2024, summer of 2024. And it was almost immediate, was like, we have to have all the family has to have our recipes. And so she had a really cute little vintage recipe card box, and the whole process just sort of unfolded over the past year and a half. It is definitely a lot of Southern cooking. She’s from Texas, but lived the past 30 years up in northern Washington. And her and my mom and her siblings lived all over the country.So there’s just a little bit of everything in there from, like, recipes she got from neighbors or things that she learned from different parts of the country. So it’s a really fun, like, eclectic mix of American cooking. And it’s just so much her. Like, there’s sugar and everything, and it’s just. I’m so happy to have all of the family favorites in one place. Yeah.Stephanie Hansen:Did you work with members of the family, or was it primarily. Did it fall on you to compile everything?Ashley Russell:I definitely compiled everything, but my family was there every step of the way. Like, my grandma wrote in cursive, and I couldn’t always read it.Stephanie Hansen:A lot of our grandmas wrote in cursive, and it is hard to read.Ashley Russell:It’s so hard to read. And so we started this text group, and I would be like, does anyone know what this says? And then also things like vegetable oil or sweet milk or, you know, polio olio. Exactly. What is that?Stephanie Hansen:It’s shortening. But, I mean, nobody knew.Ashley Russell:Nobody knew. And so it was a lot of just, like, you know, there were puzzles to it, and it was funny, and it brought us together and it kept us talking about her. And then, in addition to the community that I reached out to here in Portland, all My family members helped recipe test because it’s like they remembered how it was supposed to taste. So it was almost like, you know, I think that this is missing this because she didn’t write everything down. Like, a lot of things lived in her head.Stephanie Hansen:Yeah. Did you ever done this before or anything like this? Do you. What’s your background?Ashley Russell:No. So I worked for a decade in costume design. I worked on a lot of small budget indie film and tv. And so I think I’m used to like, okay, we have this big hurdle of a project ahead. But I’ve never, I’ve never written a book. I’ve never written a cookbook. And the whole process was such a journey, but it, it was all so much fun, I think, because I was like learning and uncovering things about my family along the way. Yeah.Ashley Russell:So.Stephanie Hansen:Well, the creative process too, I think, is. Know you talk about being a costume designer. I didn’t really think about writing a cookbook or recipes or being a recipe developer as a creative endeavor until I kind of started doing it more. And then I was like, oh, yeah, this does require creativity. And this is where that, where I scratch that itch.Ashley Russell:Yes, totally. I agree with that. It is super creative. And I never realized that either. I have a few cookbooks, but in this process, it made me realize, like, what little magical creative books they are and how much, you know, there’s people’s dreams and they nourish us and they’re little windows into different parts of history and people’s lives and they’re just pretty cool. Yeah.Stephanie Hansen:And people talk about like, I’m, I’m in the process of. I just released a book in September, so I’m out at bookstores and grocery stores and selling the book everywhere. And a lot of people are like, oh, you know, nobody really needs cookbooks anymore. And I was like, well, actually, you can always look up a recipe on the Internet that’s there, but the narrative, the piece of how that fits into their life, the memory that that recipe brings or that combination of spices that transports you to a place that is what is unique about a cookbook. It’s. It’s so much more than just the recipe. And if you’re not jazzed by any of that, then, yeah, it’s probably not for you.Ashley Russell:Totally. Yes. Like, you have to be inspired by it. Right. And like, I don’t know, I get pretty annoyed with recipes online. There’s a ton of pop ups and your phone, you know, has the auto timer and it has to face ID every two minutes. I. It’s just when you have it in a cookbook, it’s almost like the record version of like a Spotify song.I don’t know, like, you sure? Yeah, yeah.Stephanie Hansen:Like, and you can get a song but you don’t have it in the context of all the songs in the record and that the artist had. Yeah, it’s very similar, actually.Ashley Russell:Totally. And like, people love listening to records and collecting records and I really just think it’s, it’s, it’s a similar. Comes from a similar place.Stephanie Hansen:Yeah. Okay. So your book, what’s Cooking Good Looking? It is a spiral bound, which I thought was an interesting choice that I want to ask you about. And it’s also got these illustrations. Did you illustrate it or did someone else? They’re real cute. They’re like tattooed inspired and they’re kind of jazzy and it kind of. It had like a hipster core vibe to it.Ashley Russell:Yes. So my boyfriend’s brother’s sister, so more or less my sister in law. I’ve known her for six years now. She’s a tattoo artist and she does a lot of florals and she did like a food flash at one point. And I’ve always loved her art. And when I was first starting the book, I was in Canva and I was like, oh, clip art’s cute. And I was like, you know, I don’t know if I would ever release a book with clip art in it, you know, And I wasn’t sold on doing photography. I knew how specific and it had to be.Ashley Russell:Like, people have nailed food photography. If I was going to do it, I wanted to make sure it rocked. And so I asked her one day, I was like, would you want to illustrate this book? And she was like, oh my God, yes. And her tattoos are in black and white already. So it kind of, it transferred pretty easily into print form. And so I was able to use all of her tattoo library, like things she had already drawn. And then she drew things specifically for the book as well. And I just think it looks awesome.Stephanie Hansen:Yeah, it really does. It’s real sweet. And what about the choice of spiral bound? And can you talk, can you make that be the introduction of talking about like how you decided to self publish and did you go out and try to find agents or did you go right to self publishing?Ashley Russell:Sure. So I in the past couple years have been really inspired by Rizzo prints and graphic novels and a lot of small press publishing and super inspired by vintage cookbooks. And a lot of them are spiral bound or they’re notebook bound. And it’s. It’s kind of like, it gives it this retro feel, and it’s kind of an homage to all of, like, the women’s groups and church groups that did cookbooks over the decades. But I also think it’s super functional in the kitchen. And I had a graphic design friend mention to me that she loves when a spiral bound is a color that totally offsets the book. So my book is, like, very black and white and yellow, and then it has this bright red spiral binding.And I just think it makes it pop. Like, it’s. It’s fun and practical. So as far as self publishing. So when I started this, it was really just a project for my family. It was really just, you know, I wanted them to have all the recipes. I. I wasn’t even sure if I was going to print it.And as the process unfolded more, I realized more and more that I wanted to make this a book. And I wanted to put my heart in this book. And I wanted to share who Wanda and our family is with the world. And it really was just like a flower slowly blooming. Like, every week would be like, oh, I have to put the ingredients in the order of the method. Oh, you have to do this. Oh, people like, you know, like, you want everything in a recipe on one page. You don’t want to have to, like, go back and forth.And it became this really fun project puzzle for me to be like, maybe I can create a cookbook. And so I didn’t reach out to agents or anything, because I think the main important part was for this book to be about my grandma and come from me. And I was worried that having an agent or a publisher might dilute that a little bit.Stephanie Hansen:Yeah, they’d have feedback or input or change things. Sure.Ashley Russell:Yeah. So I was able to work with a lot of friends, family, and get a lot of feedback throughout the entire process. I hired an editor, and so there was that constructive criticism, but I didn’t feel like the voice or the vision was changing for profit, per se. And so self publishing is what I stuck with. And I think that in order for me to print this book the way I wanted to and for it to look the way it does, I don’t know if I could have convinced a publisher to get on board with that.Stephanie Hansen:So then you make that decision and you’ve got your book assembled or your PDF pages, essentially. Did you tell me about, like, did you go out and just Google, like, how to self publish? Did you figure out, like, how to print on Demand was there color considerations. Kind of walk me through that process a little bit.Ashley Russell:Sure. So I did start looking up print on demand and I started Googling, you know, how to write a cookbook. I listened to Maggie Green’s podcast Cookbook Love, like, religiously. I got books on the subject, and I really just created, like, it was my own research project. And I was learning as I went. What turned me away from doing, like, on demand printing or online publishing was that I really wanted it to be spiral bound. I knew that from the beginning almost. And I really wanted to do a mixture of Rizzo printing.Ashley Russell:And I wanted the paper. I just wanted everything to be really high quality and feel like her note cards, feel like her recipe cards. And I didn’t think I would get that with online printing. So I went and talked with a few print shops here in Portland, Oregon, and Brown Printing, like, got the project right away. And I’ve been working with them for the past several months to get it printed.Stephanie Hansen:Have you. Have you printed, like, X amount and you’re kind of selling stock as you go?Ashley Russell:Yeah, So I, you know, budget has been a concern throughout this whole process. Like, anyone who’s made a cookbook knows it gets very expensive between recipe testing. And I did end up doing photography. I did it myself. All of those things really add up. And so I did an initial print run of 300, which is almost gone at this point. I just picked it up in the beginning of the month. And Brown’s doing another run of.Ashley Russell:Of, 300 for the 1st of December so I can have more for the holidays.Stephanie Hansen:And then do you package them up and ship them when people make an order? Can you talk a little bit about that? Because people don’t think about that. But you have to buy, like, special envelopes. You have to go to the post office. There is a category for media mail that makes it a little cheaper, but it’s still. It’s a process.Ashley Russell:It is a process. Like, every bit of this has been such a process. And so, yeah, my. My limit, I had about 180 orders to ship out when I got all the books from recipe testers. Order, pre-orders, family, you know, you name it. And our whole. Our whole living room and kitchen was just, like, stacked with boxes and you.Stephanie Hansen:And they’re bigger than you think.Ashley Russell:Like, they’re bigger than you think and they’re heavy.Stephanie Hansen:Yes. And a box of like, 15 books is, like, a big box. And they’re everywhere.Ashley Russell:They’re everywhere. Yeah. So, you know, it’s kind of like if you’re an Etsy shop owner, you know, kind of our pain, I guess. But, you know, you’re doing. You’re the manual labor and you’re the author and you’re the publisher, you know, so you’re doing everything. And I lugged them all down to the UPS and USPS and shipped them off. Yeah.Stephanie Hansen:Where do you go from here with it? Like, you gotta sell through your next 300, obviously. Did this, like, create a pathway for you, or is this where you’ll end this journey and just one and done. And it was great.Ashley Russell:Yeah. So when I first started, I had over 300 recipes from the family. And I reached out to my first editor contact and they were like, whoa, that’s a lot of recipes. They’re like, books are usually like 75 to 150. And I was like, oh. And like now seeing this printed and it’s 260 pages, like, I get it. But at the time, I was like, I just wanted to have everything. And so I have at least one other book of Wanda’s on the horizon.But for now, I’m really just trying to put myself in. What if I had a publisher? What if I had an agent? What would they be doing? So it’s a lot. Yeah, it’s a lot of reaching out to retail stores, seeing if I can get an interview on a podcast, trying to put my book out there in ways that I know of and seeing where it lands. I have. There’s about seven stores in Portland that are carrying the book right now, and they’re all stores I really love. And that’s super exciting.Stephanie Hansen:They carry it on consignment or do you sell them to them outright?Ashley Russell:It depends. So a couple are wholesale and a couple are consignment. Wholesale obviously works better for us, but I’m just happy to have the book out there. I think it’s a good time of year. You know, she made all these dishes for Thanksgiving and. And Christmas, so it’s the. It’s the time to have it in your kitchen.Stephanie Hansen:Do you. Can you talk about, like, how much you make per book?Ashley Russell:Sure. So if I’m talking just printing costs to do the 300 with the brown printing and the riso printing I did by hand at outlet PDX, we’re looking at about $20 a book. And I have the book priced at 38. So because I’m not splitting this with any publisher or agent, that means technically $20 profit goes back into my pocket. But at this point, we’re still paying off all the production costs, and it also doesn’t include that dollar amount. Doesn’t include, like, my labor. So when you really figure it out, it’s probably. Or food.When you really figure out the numbers. This first round probably cost me about $50 a book to make, you know, and then the hope is, over the years, if continuing to sell copies here and there, you break even, or maybe you make a few dollars.Stephanie Hansen:Yeah, it’s. It is kind of like that. As you get, like, past Wanda’s story, do you see this being a journey you’ll stay on, or is it really just. I’m curious if it ignited something in you because you seem like a creative person.Ashley Russell:Yeah. Like, I’ve always wanted to be a writer, and it’s been pretty daunting. My grandma always encouraged me to be a writer. This feels like that first step. I also like the idea. I’ve heard a cookbook is, like, the best business card, you know, And I think that’s, like, a great way to look at it, too. It’s something that I’ve made that I can say, you know, I wrote this, I’ve made this. I’d like to do this project.Stephanie Hansen:And fascinating, because that is for. For me personally, I wanted to have agency in the cooking space, and I wasn’t. And I wasn’t a writer, so I was like, how am I going to get that? I wanted to have a television show. I wanted to do more podcasting, specifically about food. I had a radio show about food, but I needed to have more autonomy, and that's how I started.Ashley Russell:Totally. That makes sense. Did you. Do you feel like that helped achieve some of the dreams you had?Stephanie Hansen:Oh, for sure. I have a TV show now, and I wouldn’t have had the TV show if I hadn’t have written the cookbook, I don’t think.Ashley Russell:Yeah.Stephanie Hansen:Because even though I’m a home chef or a home cook and not a chef at all, actually having the book gives you some credibility of why this person’s gonna invest in you and put you on television station. 88 markets. I don’t think they would have done that if I wouldn’t have had the book.Ashley Russell:Totally. And honestly, like, I think being a home chef, you almost write a better cookbook because you can anticipate what other home chefs are going to be confused by or what they need written down.Stephanie Hansen:Well. And a lot of the best chefs, who I have much admiration and respect for, their books are really challenging or technical and. And that’s great. Like, maybe that’s who they’re writing them for. But some of my favorite chefs, I get their books and I keep them because I love the photography and I just admire so much of the skills and what they bring to the party. But very few of them I actually ever cooked out of.Ashley Russell:Yeah, they’re like these beautiful aspirations.Stephanie Hansen:Yeah, they’re aspirational books, for sure.Ashley Russell:Yeah.Stephanie Hansen:Can you talk a little bit about Wanda? Just your grandma? Like, you just have a real spirit about you that must come from her. And I’m just curious why she was so meaningful to you outside of just being your grandma.Ashley Russell:Yeah, totally. So I was raised by my mom. It was just me and my mom and I would spend a lot of time with my grandparents. I think when you’re set up in that sort of one parent system, I was either going with my mom everywhere or I was spending summers at my grandparents, and those summers at my grandparents. I, I feel like as an adult, I’m sort of chasing that feeling, you know, of, of being, you know.Stephanie Hansen:Really? Yeah. Oh, that’s so touching.Ashley Russell:Yeah. I mean, it’s true. Whether it’s cooking in the kitchen or laughing with my grandpa. You know, my grandma taught me how to sew, and later on in life, I worked in costumes and I used to bake with her, and now I’m making this cookbook. She meant a lot to me. And I know, I know both of them meant so much to our whole family that I don’t want, I don’t want us to lose that, and I don’t want anyone that comes next in our family to not know about it.Stephanie Hansen:Yeah. Yeah. What a beautiful sentiment. I, I just the I, the what you said, just, I’ve been chasing that feeling is really. I wrote my book for very similar reasons. You know, my mom had died early of breast cancer, and I wanted to document family recipes. Yeah, just the way you said that was really beautiful, so. Oh, that’s so nice.Ashley Russell:I, I, whether or not we’re aware of it, that we’re, we’re kind of doing that right. You know, where’s your happy place? What makes you, what brings you happiness? And those memories really do as, as I’m sure other memories for other people do for them.Stephanie Hansen:Yeah. All right. Well, I have loved hearing your story. I knew right away when the book came across my desk and you reached out to me directly, I was like, oh, yeah, I do want to talk to her. I want to figure out, like, what inspired her to take this on. Because it is a labor of love, you. Even if, I mean, I don’t I’ve not read a statistic, but like most cookbooks and most cookbook authors are not getting rich by writing cookbooks. They’re using it to parlayed into other things.So it’s usually not actually a money making endeavor. It’s more a creative process and something that you do as a labor of love. And I think a lot of people that love cookbooks may be listening, you know, have wanted to do this. So I wanted to like, really document, like, how did you do it and what did you think about and how did you decide to put it together? When you put your list of recipes together, was it obvious what was going to make it?Ashley Russell:Yeah, you know, it started with what are the family favorites? What, what do we have to have? And then it was with, you know, what turned out really well in recipe testing. And from there, like, you know, the, the, the baking section’s over half the book. Yeah. And then it was sort of trying to round out the other sections of the book. Yeah. And they were recipes that could stand the test of time and that people would still want to make and also that my, my grandma would enjoy another favorites. Oh, yeah. So I mean, her banana bread is like, I knew I wanted to start the book with her banana bread and end it with sweet tea.That’s my grandma to the core. And then in between, you know, there’s so many great home cooked meals, home cooked desserts. She had a famous chocolate pie, famous pecan pie. Her Italian cream cake is to die for. It’s like a coconut cake. Um, my aunt Angie, her oldest daughter, said that people used to request that she make that. So that was fun to learn and to put in the book.Stephanie Hansen:And now you know how to make all the things too, or a lot of the things.Ashley Russell:Yes. My family’s like, well, I guess you’re cooking for Thanksgiving now because you know all of her recipes.Stephanie Hansen:Oh, that’s so great. I really enjoyed talking to you. It is Ashley Russell. The book is I wrote the what’s Cooking Good Looking? Sorry. It is a really beautiful, fun, different way to approach this topic of cookbooks. And I was really. I’m impressed by what you did and I know your grandma would be, she would love it. She’d be real proud of you.And it’s really nice to talk with you and share your story. I’ll put a link to the book in the podcast notes and put that all together and hopefully we’ll help you sell through your next 300. Ashley.Ashley Russell:Thank you, Stephanie. I really appreciate it.Stephanie Hansen:Yeah, it was great. To hear your story and to just spend time with you. Good luck.Ashley Russell:Thanks. Have a good day.Stephanie Hansen:All right. Bye.Ashley Russell:Bye.Stephanie’s Dish Newsletter is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit <a href="https://stephaniehansen.substack.com/subscribe?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_2">stephaniehansen.substack.com/subscribe</a>

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Dishing with Stephanie's Dish

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