Sugar Calling

Cheryl Strayed talks with the poet Joy Harjo about beauty, prophecies and listening to your spiritual council. Joy tells the story of being named the 23rd poet laureate of the United States, and opens up about leaving home to attend a Bureau of Indian Education boarding school in the 1960s. "For the first time, I was in a circle of relatives,” Joy says, “a circle of other students like me who were natives, who had been through a lot of the same stories.”

Cheryl calls Billy Collins, a former poet laureate of the United States, at his home in Florida. The two reflect on the collective silence — and slowness — that has befallen the world, and they discuss the unexpected comfort in memorizing poetry: "You really internalize this series of lines and bring it into yourself. And it's a part of you then," Billy says.

Cheryl calls Alice Walker, the poet and novelist, at her home in Mendocino, California. They talk about ancestors, solitude and the time it takes to heal. Cheryl asks Alice about remembering her dreams, and the two discuss suffering and resilience — via the late boxing world-champion Muhammad Ali.

Cheryl calls Judy Blume, the beloved young-adult novelist, at her home in the Florida Keys. The two talk about raising teens, losing religion and decades of writing it all down.

Note: This episode contains descriptions of suicide and sexual violence. Cheryl phones Amy Tan at her home overlooking Sausalito Bay in California. The two compare notes on family, grief and the long arc of resilience.