<p>Most UX practitioners have spent their careers fighting for the user — pushing back against dark patterns, advocating for quality, and insisting that making things better for people is also better for the business. Eric Ries would say that instinct is exactly right. And that it&#39;s not enough.</p><p>In this episode, host Laura Klein talks with Eric Ries — New York Times Best Selling Author of <em>The Lean Startup</em> and founder of the Long Term Stock Exchange — about his new book, <em>Incorruptible: Why Good Companies Go Bad...and How Great Companies Stay Great</em>. Eric makes the case that most of today&#39;s business best practices are actively value-destroying, and that the builders, designers, and makers who already believe product quality matters are more revolutionary than they realize — they just lack the tools to protect that belief inside their organizations.</p><p>They dig into the history of shareholder primacy, why corporate governance is something every practitioner should understand, and the very specific questions you can ask in a job interview to find out whether a company is genuinely mission-driven or just mission-hopeful.</p><p><br></p><p><strong>About Eric Ries | </strong><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/eries/"><strong>Linkedin</strong></a><strong></strong></p><ul><li><a href="https://www.ericriesshow.com/">The Eric Ries Show</a></li><li><a href="https://www.incorruptible.co/">Incorruptible (New Book)</a> - Available Now!</li><li><a href="https://theleanstartup.com/">The Lean Start Up (Book)</a></li></ul><p><br></p><p><strong>Related NN/G Articles &amp; Videos</strong></p><ul><li><a href="https://www.nngroup.com/articles/stakeholder-engagement/">UX Stakeholder Engagement 101</a></li><li><a href="https://www.nngroup.com/articles/deceptive-patterns/">Deceptive Patterns in UX: How to Recognize and Avoid Them</a></li><li><a href="https://www.nngroup.com/articles/factors-ux-maturity/">Four Factors in UX Maturity</a></li><li><a href="https://www.nngroup.com/articles/ux-maturity-living-system/">UX Maturity Is a Living System, Not a Ladder</a></li><li><a href="https://www.nngroup.com/articles/fuego-product-leaders/">UXers Need to Think Like Product Leaders</a></li></ul><p><br></p><p><strong>Try One of Our Courses</strong></p><p>→ Becoming a UX Strategist (Live Online)→ Successful Stakeholder Relationships (Live Online)→ Lean UX and Agile (Live Online)→ Demonstrating UX Value (Self-Paced)→ UX Maturity: Elevating Organizational UX Practices (Self-Paced)</p><p><br></p><p>Don’t forget to like and subscribe! ❤️</p><p><br></p><p><strong>Follow Us On:</strong></p><p><a href="https://www.nngroup.com/articles/subscribe/?utm_source=spotify&utm_medium=podcast">Newsletter</a></p><p><a href="https://www.instagram.com/nngux/">Instagram</a></p><p><a href="https://www.threads.com/@nngux">Threads</a></p><p><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/company/nielsen-norman-group/">Linkedin</a></p><p><a href="https://bsky.app/profile/nngroupux.bsky.social">Bluesky</a></p><p><a href="https://x.com/NNgroup">X</a></p><p><br></p><p>📹 <strong>Post-production by</strong></p><p>Tiago Pedro (Design Assistant)</p><p>Megan Brown (Social Media Lead)</p>