New Kinship

<p>Logan Morrison is a trans man who leads Kaleidoscope’s trans outreach ministry in New York City. Logan talked with TJ and Tyler about coming out as trans and losing a job over it, and how Christian gospel and Christian communities had positive and negative impacts on him and many others. Tune in also for conversations about: how we distinguish experiences of gender vs. sexuality (”are you trans, or are you just lesbian?”), barriers for trans people in churches (exclusion, pronouns, bathrooms, stereotypes), and some practical steps for Christians wanting to serve and engage trans people (whether or not they’re Christians).</p><p><strong>About Our Guest:</strong> Logan (he/him) serves as the Trans Care Specialist and Community Outreach Coordinator at Kaleidoscope Ministries, where he walks alongside trans individuals with compassion, advocacy, and faith-centered support. Through unexpected turns in his own journey, Logan discerned a calling to steward his trans experience as a bridge for creating space to share the hope of the gospel with other trans folks in authentic and relational ways. He lives in NYC with his chosen family and three dogs.</p><p>—</p><p>★ <strong>Timestamps</strong></p><p>(00:00) #79 - Logan Morrison on Practical Steps for Reaching the Transgender Community</p><p>(01:56) About Logan</p><p>(03:45) Moving into trans ministry with Kaleidoscope </p><p>(10:35) Coming to a definition of “trans”--and of the gospel </p><p>(19:54) Barriers and misunderstandings: Being asked to leave, politicization </p><p>(26:51) What’s the difference between sexuality and gender experience? </p><p>(35:17) How’d you decide you were trans and not lesbian? </p><p>(49:56) How my theology leads loving outreach to trans people </p><p>(52:24) Advice to Christians wanting to engage/support trans people </p><p>(59:44) What gives me hope: Some trans people don’t have baggage with the gospel </p><p>(01:03:30) Words for trans listeners</p><p>—</p><p><strong>★ Links and References</strong></p><p><em>Ragamuffin Gospel</em>: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.amazon.com/Ragamuffin-Gospel-Brennan-Manning/dp/1576737160">https://www.amazon.com/Ragamuffin-Gospel-Brennan-Manning/dp/1576737160</a></p><p>Kaleidoscope USA: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.kaleidoscopeusa.org/">https://www.kaleidoscopeusa.org/</a></p><p>—</p><p>★ Send us feedback, questions, comments, and support || Email: <a target="_blank" href="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a> | Instagram: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.instagram.com/newkinship">@newkinship</a> | Substack: <a target="_blank" href="https://newkinship.substack.com/">@newkinship</a></p><p><strong>—</strong></p><p><strong>★ Credits ||</strong> Creators and Hosts: David Frank, TJ Espinoza, Tyler Parker | Audio Engineer: Carl Swenson, <a target="_blank" href="http://www.carlswensonmusic.com/">carlswensonmusic.com</a> | Podcast Manager: Elena F. | Graphic Designer: Gavin Popken, <a target="_blank" href="https://gavinpopkenart.com/">gavinpopkenart.com</a> ★</p> <br/><br/>Get full access to New Kinship at <a href="https://newkinship.substack.com/subscribe?utm_medium=podcast&#38;utm_campaign=CTA_4">newkinship.substack.com/subscribe</a>

<p>Tyler Parker, David Frank, and TJ introduce a new monthly-ish podcast format called the <strong>Kinship Lab</strong>, created to reflect on recent interviews/events or other emerging ideas. Comment below on any questions or topics you’d like to see in the future.</p><p>In this first Kinship Lab, they reflect on a recent two-day summit of a handful of Side B leaders, emphasizing growing capacity for fruitful conversation amid differences and experienced trauma. Questions at play: What is Side B? How should Side B engage trans and gender-dysphoria experiences theologically and pastorally? How can Side B respond to ongoing debates about celibate partnerships? Can Side B leadership develop breadth, depth, accountability, and maybe even create a common covenant? Is Side B a gift for Q/SSA people, or for the whole church?</p><p>00:00 Welcome to Kinship Lab</p><p>02:23 Future of Side B | Why Call It Project</p><p>04:25 Summit Setup and Hopes</p><p>05:18 Building Trust Through Tension</p><p>09:47 Defining Side B Today</p><p>14:11 Gender Questions Rising</p><p>17:16 Celibate Partnerships Debate</p><p>18:53 Learning From Experts</p><p>24:01 Global Voices Needed</p><p>26:38 Leader Accountability and Unity</p><p>29:51 Movement Longevity and Visibility</p><p>32:00 Towards a Side B Covenant</p><p>33:28 Gender and Queer Culture</p><p>35:24 Unity and Accountability</p><p>40:57 Why Statements Matter</p><p>42:56 Side B as Liberatory Gift</p><p>44:45 Theology Group Takeaways</p><p>51:44 Closing and Next Topics</p><p>55:14 Listener Feedback and Farewell</p> <br/><br/>Get full access to New Kinship at <a href="https://newkinship.substack.com/subscribe?utm_medium=podcast&#38;utm_campaign=CTA_4">newkinship.substack.com/subscribe</a>

<p>Eve Tushnet (writer and cofounder of Building Catholic Futures) joined Tyler, TJ, and David to talk about forms of kinship beyond marriage—specifically vows of friendship or lifelong celibate partnership. Eve reflects on her own journey to Catholicism, to serving the church as a gay Christian, and to discerning a lifelong partnership herself.</p><p>★ <strong>About Our Guest</strong></p><p>Eve Tushnet is the author of two award-winning books on gay Christians' spiritual journeys. She is the co-founder of Building Catholic Futures, which equips Catholic institutions to serve and share the Gospel with gay people. She lives in California with her partner and children. You can email Eve at <a target="_blank" href="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a>.</p><p>—</p><p>★ <strong>Timestamps</strong></p><p>(00:00) #78 - Eve Tushnet on Catholic Discipleship and Vows of Partnership</p><p>(00:34) Eve’s background: Secular Jewish to gay Catholic</p><p>(02:55) Building Catholic Futures for mission, for leadership</p><p>(08:07) Core ideas: Spiritual journeys, perspectives, and storytelling</p><p>(15:16) Churches: What small things can build trust?</p><p>(18:13) Imagining a future of kinship beyond marriage</p><p>(27:05) What to do with the rarity of vowed friendship</p><p>(34:09) How Eve met her partner</p><p>(39:56) How do you think about “romance” in your celibate partnership?</p><p>(48:43) Children? Taking responsibility for each other’s families</p><p>(54:13) Are you sisters? Friends? Life partners? Kin?</p><p>(57:21) Clergy to support your making of vows?</p><p>(58:18) Loving people means choosing pain</p><p>(01:07:58) Advice for people discerning kinships and partnerships</p><p>—</p><p><strong>★ Links and References</strong></p><p>Building Catholic Futures: <a target="_blank" href="https://buildingcatholic.org/">https://buildingcatholic.org/</a></p><p><em>Tenderness</em> (2021): <a target="_blank" href="https://www.avemariapress.com/products/tenderness">https://www.avemariapress.com/products/tenderness</a></p><p>—</p><p>★ Send us feedback, questions, comments, and support || Email: <a target="_blank" href="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a> | Instagram: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.instagram.com/newkinship">@newkinship</a> | Substack: <a target="_blank" href="https://newkinship.substack.com/">@newkinship</a></p><p><strong>—</strong></p><p><strong>★ Credits ||</strong> Eve’s photo: Anthony Esser | Creators and Hosts: David Frank, TJ Espinoza, Tyler Parker | Audio Engineer: Carl Swenson, <a target="_blank" href="http://www.carlswensonmusic.com/">carlswensonmusic.com</a> | Podcast Manager: Elena F. | Graphic Designer: Gavin Popken, <a target="_blank" href="https://gavinpopkenart.com/">gavinpopkenart.com</a> ★</p> <br/><br/>Get full access to New Kinship at <a href="https://newkinship.substack.com/subscribe?utm_medium=podcast&#38;utm_campaign=CTA_4">newkinship.substack.com/subscribe</a>

<p>In Part 2 of our conversation, Odessa offers a deeply reflective exploration of gender through philosophical, theological, and lived lenses. From mushrooms to Aristotle to Christian eschatology, Odessa invites each of us into a nuanced dialogue about embodiment, faithfulness, and what holiness and hospitality might look like amid contemporary debates about gender.</p><p>Part 1 can be found here: <a target="_blank" href="https://newkinship.substack.com/p/76-bearing-witness-through-change">https://newkinship.substack.com/p/76-bearing-witness-through-change</a></p><p>Note: This episode uses the terms “Side A” and “Side B” (and X, Y) as shorthand quite a bit. If you’re new to the conversation, you might find it helpful to check out episode #3, where we talk through the four “sides”: <a target="_blank" href="https://newkinship.substack.com/p/3-a-b-y-x-4-sides-on-ssagay-sexuality-69e">⁠#3 - A-B-Y-X | 4 Sides on SSA/Gay Sexuality⁠</a></p><p>—</p><p>★ <strong>Timestamps</strong></p><p>(00:00) #77 - Odessa the Barefoot (Part 2): On Being "Social Legible as a Woman"</p><p>(02:29) "The project of pursuing womanhood"</p><p>(07:37) Self-emptying: There's no privilege with being trans</p><p>(08:25) Defining: Gender</p><p>(12:09) Do souls have a gender?</p><p>(15:56) Is being trans "maladaptive" to the social order?</p><p>(19:57) The project of manhood or womanhood: Can we opt out?</p><p>(25:50) Side B schools of thought: Identity and family</p><p>(32:43) Doesn't gender dysphoria sometimes resolve?</p><p>(39:39) Youth transition: "Not a problem we can solve politically"</p><p>(42:34) Ivan Illich: Maybe our whole society is a little gender dysphoric</p><p>(48:01) Connections to transhumanism</p><p>(53:24) Spiritual experience of queer people vs. cis people</p><p>(59:08) Ideological hospitality? In Christ there is no male and female</p><p>(01:05:41) Gendered souls? Reflections on Pauline eschatology</p><p>(01:15:38) The way of holiness in the trans experience</p><p>—</p><p>★ Send us feedback, questions, comments, and support!</p><p>Email: <a target="_blank" href="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a> | Instagram: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.instagram.com/newkinship">@newkinship</a> | Substack: <a target="_blank" href="https://newkinship.substack.com/">@newkinship</a> | Patreon: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.patreon.com/newkinship">@newkinship</a></p><p>—</p><p><strong>★ Credits</strong></p><p>Creators and Hosts: David Frank, TJ Espinoza, Tyler Parker | Audio Engineer: Carl Swenson, <a target="_blank" href="http://carlswensonmusic.com">carlswensonmusic.com</a> | Podcast Manager: Elena F. | Graphic Designer: Gavin Popken, <a target="_blank" href="http://gavinpopkenart.com">gavinpopkenart.com</a> ★</p> <br/><br/>Get full access to New Kinship at <a href="https://newkinship.substack.com/subscribe?utm_medium=podcast&#38;utm_campaign=CTA_4">newkinship.substack.com/subscribe</a>

<p>In this episode, Odessa—a transgender woman and former Anglican priest—shares her journey of transition alongside a deep wrestling with faith, vocation, and identity. She reflects on growing up with alienation and shame, the freedom she’s found in embracing her femininity, and the costs of that journey for her family, church, and relationships. Odessa also explores the intersections of gender, neurodivergence, and spirituality. We appreciate her a candid reflection on seeking wholeness without easy answers.</p><p>This is Part 1 of 2—listen to Part 2 here when it’s available: <a target="_blank" href="https://open.substack.com/pub/newkinship/p/bonus-odessa-the-barefoot-on-being?r=2bruyd&#38;utm_campaign=post&#38;utm_medium=web&#38;showWelcomeOnShare=true">https://open.substack.com/pub/newkinship/p/bonus-odessa-the-barefoot-on-being</a></p><p>Note: This episode uses the term “Side B” as shorthand a bit. If you’re new to the conversation, you might find it helpful to check out episode #3, where we talk through the four “sides”: <a target="_blank" href="https://newkinship.substack.com/p/3-a-b-y-x-4-sides-on-ssagay-sexuality-69e">⁠#3 - A-B-Y-X | 4 Sides on SSA/Gay Sexuality⁠</a></p><p>—</p><p>★ <strong>Timestamps</strong></p><p>(00:00) #76 - Bearing Witness through Change: Odessa the Barefoot on Transition, Faith, and Femininity</p><p>(02:45) Gender transition is a discontinuous experience</p><p>(06:04) Looking for words to share with a trusted adult</p><p>(18:34) Discontinuities: Being in seminary, married, autogynephilia</p><p>(23:18) Honoring prior commitments by not outwardly transitioning</p><p>(27:03) “My metaphysics does not allow” for hormones to be this effective...</p><p>(37:24) The project(s) of femininity and womanhood</p><p>(40:25) Theological traditions and eccentric Anglican priests</p><p>(43:54) Same-sex attraction was different than gender/trans experience for me</p><p>(46:46) Being released from prior commitments: Trans impact on family, church</p><p>(56:19) Bearing witness: ministering to others</p><p>—</p><p>★ Send us feedback, questions, comments, and support!</p><p>Email: <a target="_blank" href="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a> | Instagram: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.instagram.com/newkinship">@newkinship</a> | Substack: <a target="_blank" href="https://newkinship.substack.com/">@newkinship</a> | Patreon: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.patreon.com/newkinship">@newkinship</a></p><p>—</p><p><strong>★ Credits</strong></p><p>Creators and Hosts: David Frank, TJ Espinoza, Tyler Parker | Audio Engineer: Carl Swenson, <a target="_blank" href="http://www.carlswensonmusic.com">carlswensonmusic.com</a> | Podcast Manager: Elena F. | Graphic Designer: Gavin Popken, <a target="_blank" href="https://gavinpopkenart.com/">gavinpopkenart.com</a> ★</p> <br/><br/>Get full access to New Kinship at <a href="https://newkinship.substack.com/subscribe?utm_medium=podcast&#38;utm_campaign=CTA_4">newkinship.substack.com/subscribe</a>