<p>In Part 2 of our conversation, Odessa offers a deeply reflective exploration of gender through philosophical, theological, and lived lenses. From mushrooms to Aristotle to Christian eschatology, Odessa invites each of us into a nuanced dialogue about embodiment, faithfulness, and what holiness and hospitality might look like amid contemporary debates about gender.</p><p>Part 1 can be found here: <a target="_blank" href="https://newkinship.substack.com/p/76-bearing-witness-through-change">https://newkinship.substack.com/p/76-bearing-witness-through-change</a></p><p>Note: This episode uses the terms “Side A” and “Side B” (and X, Y) as shorthand quite a bit. If you’re new to the conversation, you might find it helpful to check out episode #3, where we talk through the four “sides”: <a target="_blank" href="https://newkinship.substack.com/p/3-a-b-y-x-4-sides-on-ssagay-sexuality-69e">⁠#3 - A-B-Y-X | 4 Sides on SSA/Gay Sexuality⁠</a></p><p>—</p><p>★ <strong>Timestamps</strong></p><p>(00:00) #77 - Odessa the Barefoot (Part 2): On Being "Social Legible as a Woman"</p><p>(02:29) "The project of pursuing womanhood"</p><p>(07:37) Self-emptying: There's no privilege with being trans</p><p>(08:25) Defining: Gender</p><p>(12:09) Do souls have a gender?</p><p>(15:56) Is being trans "maladaptive" to the social order?</p><p>(19:57) The project of manhood or womanhood: Can we opt out?</p><p>(25:50) Side B schools of thought: Identity and family</p><p>(32:43) Doesn't gender dysphoria sometimes resolve?</p><p>(39:39) Youth transition: "Not a problem we can solve politically"</p><p>(42:34) Ivan Illich: Maybe our whole society is a little gender dysphoric</p><p>(48:01) Connections to transhumanism</p><p>(53:24) Spiritual experience of queer people vs. cis people</p><p>(59:08) Ideological hospitality? In Christ there is no male and female</p><p>(01:05:41) Gendered souls? Reflections on Pauline eschatology</p><p>(01:15:38) The way of holiness in the trans experience</p><p>—</p><p>★ Send us feedback, questions, comments, and support!</p><p>Email: <a target="_blank" href="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a> | Instagram: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.instagram.com/newkinship">@newkinship</a> | Substack: <a target="_blank" href="https://newkinship.substack.com/">@newkinship</a> | Patreon: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.patreon.com/newkinship">@newkinship</a></p><p>—</p><p><strong>★ Credits</strong></p><p>Creators and Hosts: David Frank, TJ Espinoza, Tyler Parker | Audio Engineer: Carl Swenson, <a target="_blank" href="http://carlswensonmusic.com">carlswensonmusic.com</a> | Podcast Manager: Elena F. | Graphic Designer: Gavin Popken, <a target="_blank" href="http://gavinpopkenart.com">gavinpopkenart.com</a> ★</p> <br/><br/>Get full access to New Kinship at <a href="https://newkinship.substack.com/subscribe?utm_medium=podcast&#38;utm_campaign=CTA_4">newkinship.substack.com/subscribe</a>