Women in AEC: Wine After Work

Firms promote their strongest technical people into leadership and then give them almost no training. When a team struggles, leaders often blame the team. Amanda Van Der Heiden has seen this play out across dozens of organizations, and she argues the problem usually starts with how people are being led. Amanda and Bryce talk about how to get to the real reason someone wants out, and how to make core values stick after the launch. They cover how to adapt your leadership style without losing yourself, and what has to be in place before a leader can hand over real autonomy. Amanda explains appreciation styles and the platinum rule. She makes the case for prioritization over time management, and she shares how a 75-person company with no budget got a big initiative done anyway. This episode is for new managers, firm owners, and anyone who has been promoted for their technical skills and now leads people. About Amanda Van Der Heiden: Amanda Van Der Heiden partners with organizations on strategic learning, leadership development, and culture transformation. She has 20+ years of experience across people, project, and process management, and has led enterprise rollouts for 40+ companies in 15+ countries and 12+ industries. She's an award-winning speaker, consultant, coach, and author, with a master's in industrial/organizational psychology, CPTM certification, and credentials from ATD, SHRM, and McKinsey. She started her career in early childhood development and education, and today she's a working mom of two who blocks off 8 a.m. for the school and daycare run. What We Cover: Introduction and Amanda's background across 40 clients, 15 countries, and 12 industries What to do when someone says "this isn't for me anymore" Why a high performer going quiet should get leadership's attention Getting 3,000 people in five countries to live the same five core values Why a values poster on the wall doesn't change behavior The three stages of leadership: yourself, individuals, then teams Adapting your communication style for engineers, techies, and salespeople Why your C players might just need a different leader What has to be true before you hand over autonomy Appreciation styles and the platinum rule Why prioritization matters more than time management The Eisenhower matrix and the "one thing" question What a people-first culture actually takes The biggest mistake leaders make with culture change Boundaries, working in global markets, and parenting two small kids The career advice Amanda would retire for good Where to find Amanda and her free goal workbook + closing thoughts Key Takeaways: Before labeling someone a C player, check three things. Are they in the right role? Do they have processes that set them up to succeed? Do they have the support and tools they need? Autonomy needs structure first. Give people a clear picture of what good looks like, a plan with the right amount of management, and regular evaluation. High performers still want feedback on what to do better. Use the platinum rule when you give praise. Treat people the way they want to be treated. Public praise can make an introvert want to hide, while a quiet email can make an extrovert feel overlooked. Adapting your style isn't being fake. Amanda lowers her voice, shortens her sentences, and leads with data when she presents to technical audiences, because the goal is to be understood. Ask what one thing would make everything else on your list easier or unnecessary. If a task is neither important nor time-sensitive, take it off the list. Resources + Links: Amanda's free goal development workbook: GoGTDS.com Amanda on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amandavanderheiden/ The 5 Languages of Appreciation in the Workplace by Gary Chapman and Paul White The Eisenhower Matrix The ONE Thing by Gary Keller (source of the "one thing" question Amanda references)

Every career advice list says to protect your relationships. Almost nobody explains what that looks like day to day. Julia Hurley has built a real estate business, a political career, and an athlete management company on relationships, so she knows the how. Julia and Bryce compare matchmaking in real estate and recruiting, and why buyers and candidates are both getting choosier. Julia explains how she teaches college athletes to be the CEO of their own lives by separating the people who support them from the people who manage their money and careers. She shares her rule of thumb for rental property and the "asset or liability" game she plays with her kids. She also explains why she believes nobody at work is your friend. The conversation ends with an honest look at what it takes to lead as a woman in the South. This episode is for professionals managing their own career moves, anyone who has blurred the line between coworkers and family, and women who are often one of the few in the room. About Julia Hurley: Julia Hurley is a broker and the owner of Just Homes Group, a boutique real estate firm in Knoxville, Tennessee, with fifteen years in the industry and a business built almost entirely on past-client referrals. She is a former elected official, an author, and the founder of an athlete management and mentorship company. That company helps college athletes build investments, financial literacy, and professional teams that last beyond their playing days. She's a die-hard Tennessee Vols fan and plays "asset or liability" with her kids to teach them how money works. Website: thejuliahurley.com | LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/juliahurley What We Cover: Introduction and Julia's path from public office to real estate to athlete management Why every industry Julia has worked in comes down to relationships How one athlete client turned into an athlete management business Why a burned bridge travels fast in niche industries like AEC What makes someone say yes to a move right now, and why buyers are getting choosier Real estate and recruiting as matchmaking Knoxville's growth, and what it can learn from Nashville's boom Teaching college athletes to be the CEO of their own lives Support system vs. management system The "asset or liability" game, and why your home is a liability The 1% rule for rental property The worst career lesson Julia learned: nobody in business is your friend Leading as a woman in the South Where to find Julia and her books + closing thoughts Key Takeaways: Separate your support system from your management system. The people who helped you get here deserve your loyalty. They don't automatically get a vote on your next move. Hire your advisors independently. When one stops fitting, you can replace that person without unraveling everything else. Work relationships need boundaries. You can golf with your boss and go to dinner at their house, but when "we're family" replaces clear expectations, people get hurt. The right fit has to line up on every front at once: location, people, money, and timing. That's true for a house and for a job. For women who are one of the few in the room, stepping into the conversation is not optional. If you don't insert yourself, you're out of it, even if no one meant to leave you out. Resources + Links: Julia's website: thejuliahurley.com Julia on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/juliahurley Just Homes Group: justhomesgroup.com Julia's books, a children's book and a real estate coaching book, available at thejuliahurley.com This episode includes discussion of real estate and investing for informational purposes only. Nothing in it is financial advice.

Most AEC professionals move into leadership without any training for it. Engineering school didn't teach it and architecture school didn't either. So we copy whoever led us and hope it works. Zack Tomlin argues there's a better way, and that architects and engineers are wired to learn leadership as a craft. Zack built Maple Engineering from a two-person operation at a Raleigh public library into a 20-person firm and sold it after 12 years. He explains why leading highly technical experts calls for high-agency leadership instead of command-and-control. He walks through the five levels of his Mountain of Why and why emotional intelligence is only one leg of the stool. He gives principals a concrete exercise to try this week, and he lays out the ROI math on developing your leaders. This episode is for firm owners, principals, studio leads, and any technical professional who just got handed a team. About Zack Tomlin: Zack Tomlin, PE, is a mechanical engineer and 20+ year AEC industry veteran. He founded Maple Engineering and led it for 12 years, growing it to about 20 people through a successful acquisition. He is the national award-winning author of Craft: The Expedition of Business and founder of Your Craft Your Climb (YC2), a leadership development practice working exclusively with engineers, architects, construction managers, and other AEC professionals. His wife is an architect, so the industry follows him home. Website: yourcraftyourclimb.com | LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/zack-tomlin What We Cover: Introduction and Zack's background, from the Raleigh public library to Maple Engineering The shift from "an engineer with support staff" to a real organization at six to eight people Why designing an organization is human-centered design, like designing a building The Mountain of Why: five levels of decision-making, from copying others to first principles High-agency leadership and why sports and military analogies can stifle technical experts The leader's job: clarity in the face of external confusion, order in the face of internal chaos Why every firm needs a compelling story, and how that creates cohesion across offices Why emotional intelligence is only a third of effective leadership The staff experience journey, and the project folder that wasted everyone's time The ROI of leadership development for small and mid-size firms How engineers, architects, and construction managers tend to lead differently The leadership advice Zack thinks is wrong: "hire people smarter than you" Where to find Zack and his book, plus closing thoughts Key Takeaways: In AEC, your team often knows more about their piece of the work than you do. Your job is to create the conditions for them to make good calls on their own, not to direct every move. Leaders owe their teams two things: clarity about where you're going, and order around standards and accountability. Think traffic lights. Everyone knows the rules and what happens when you run one. Emotional intelligence is the price of admission. You also need a stronger mental model of people and organizations, and an understanding of how people prefer to work and solve problems. Walk your staff's workday like a customer journey this week. Open the files, find the SOP, wait on the software, and fix one point of friction. You're paying for very expensive brains. A studio lead running six or seven people oversees $700K to $1M in payroll. A $2,000 to $5,000 investment in that person needs well under a 1 to 2 percent improvement to pay off. Resources + Links: Your Craft Your Climb: yourcraftyourclimb.com Zack on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/zack-tomlin (subscribe to his biweekly newsletter on high-agency leadership) Craft: The Expedition of Business by Zack Tomlin: free copy at yourcraftyourclimb.com, you just pay shipping. Reach out to Zack directly for a signed copy.

Bryce just got back from Women in HVACR in Indianapolis, where she spoke to a room full of owners and managers about a number that should keep them up at night: women are leaving the trades at roughly three times the rate they are getting hired into them. Every job fair booth, every high school program, every recruiting push is water poured into a bucket with a hole in the bottom. This is not a DEI session. There is no slide arguing that diversity is good for business. This is a retention conversation built for the owner who has one woman on a crew of nine and cannot figure out why she is already looking, and for the leader watching a $22,000 replacement cost hit the P&L for the third time this year and calling it a fluke. Bryce walks through the real representation numbers, the four reasons women actually leave, the single factor that moves retention more than everything else combined, four shifts you can start this week, and a 30/60/90 day plan you can run without anyone's permission. There is also a self-audit exercise in the middle, so grab a pen or hit pause when you get there. For HVACR and trade firm owners, field managers, operations leaders, and anyone in AEC who is tired of paying to replace the same role over and over. About Bryce Bryce Batts is the co-CEO of Career Collective, an AEC-focused recruiting and coaching firm, and the founder of Bryce Batts Consulting, where she runs a 16-week engagement helping firms rebuild hiring, retention, and leadership systems. She has spent more than a decade recruiting in the built environment, is a certified career coach, the author of The Career Architect, and the host of Women in AEC: Wine After Work. She speaks regularly on talent systems, leadership, and women in the trades. What we cover Why women leaving HVACR is a leadership problem, not a pipeline problem The real representation numbers, and why the 45% growth stat is misleading What turnover actually costs, and why it never shows up on the P&L as turnover The four explanations leaders give, and what exit research says instead Reason one: harassment, and the 80% number that does more daily damage Reason two: isolation and why being the only one compounds everything Reason three: childcare, accommodations, and PPE that does not fit Reason four: the promotion path nobody ever wrote down The single biggest retention lever, and why most managers have never been told about it Four shifts, each with something you can do this week The stay audit exercise, and the one question to end it with A 30/60/90 day plan Key takeaways Recruiting harder makes a retention problem worse, not better. If the back door is open, more spend at the front door just means you lose more people faster while every metric on your recruiting dashboard says you are winning. The manager is the retention strategy. A positive relationship with a direct manager is consistently the number one retention factor for women in the trades. Not pay, not benefits, not the values page on your website. Turnover is a margin problem that got miscategorized as an HR problem. Replacing a skilled trade employee runs $15,000 to $30,000, and construction turnover can run 50% to 200% of the departing person's salary. It hides in overtime, recruiting spend, and callbacks. Practical barriers are operational fixes, not cultural ones. Properly fitting PPE, scheduling, and parental accommodations require someone to place an order and update a document. That is exactly why it is damning when they do not get done. Fix the system, not the individual. An arrangement you build for one person and never write down leaves when she does, and the next person fights the same fight alone. Do this week Pull your last three complaints and read what happened after they were filed. If the answer is "I talked to them," that is a conversation, not a resolution. Ask every person on your team what their next role is. If they cannot answer, neither can you. Pull your PPE and scheduling policies and ask who each one was designed for. Then go look at what is physically in the supply room. Name one connection point you can create in the next 30 days for anyone who is the only one on their crew. Put a date on it. Sources referenced CSG Talent, IWPR, ACHR News, She Builds the Nation, Construction Owners Association (2025), People Element (2025–26) Resources + links Career Collective: https://www.mycareercollective.com Women in HVACR: https://www.womeninhvacr.org Connect with Bryce LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bryce-batts-recruiter Email: [email protected] Instagram: @brycebatts Website: www.brycebatts.co

Barb Allen spent 20 years on commercial job sites, starting as a carpenter apprentice in 1997 and working her way up to superintendent. She was the first woman her company had ever hired out of college for that track. She left the built environment in 2022 after a meeting where leadership told her she was "difficult to work with," then admitted nobody could say how. That meeting became a book. In OneLadder to Leadership, Barb names four gender specific challenges as rungs on an unsafe ladder: missing, broken, sticky, and slippery. In this conversation she breaks down all four, tells the story of the day she stood up to a guy on her crew and changed how the whole site treated her, and explains why "are you the safety girl?" stopped making her blood boil once she figured out what to do with it. This one is for AEC leaders trying to understand why the women they hire don't stay, and for women in the industry who have been handed feedback that sounded like a suggestion and only later found out it was a requirement. About Barb Allen Barb Allen is a keynote speaker, author, and 20 year construction veteran who climbed from carpenter to project executive and operations director on projects including $100MM+ high rise towers. She holds a bachelor's degree in construction management and spent most of her career as a commercial job site superintendent before leaving the field in 2022 to speak and write full time. She is the author of OneLadder to Leadership and hosts the Constructive Behaviors podcast. She is most active on LinkedIn, and yes, she has opinions about golf. Website: https://constructionbarb.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/constructionbarb/ Book: https://www.amazon.com/ONE-LADDER-LEADERSHIP-everyone-ladder/dp/B0GT7MBTGS What We Cover Introduction and how Barb found construction management two majors and one near dropout into college Day one as a carpenter apprentice in January 1997, and the tool bags nobody told her to buy Why the hazing started three months in, not on day one The G.I. Jane moment with Don, and what changed on that site afterward Backstage support and why an apology after the meeting is not the same as backup during it The missing rung: why women get feedback that sounds like a suggestion Whether women leaders are as direct as men, and Barb admitting she was harder on the women who worked for her The broken rung: golf, hunting trips, and where sponsorship actually gets formed The sticky rung: how the industry misreads confidence, and the case for humility, curiosity, and collaboration The slippery rung: unconscious bias, "are you the safety girl?", and the response that actually lands The conversation that ended Barb's 20 years in the built environment Three types of firms when it comes to women, and what each one is getting wrong What Barb would tell a young woman walking onto her first job site Where to find Barb and closing thoughts Key Takeaways If your feedback to a woman on your team sounds like "maybe you could think about doing this differently," you have not given feedback. Direct and actionable, or it goes to the bottom of her list with everything else that is optional. Stop evaluating confidence by who speaks first and asks the fewest questions. Barb's reframe: humility, curiosity, and collaboration. The person willing to say "I don't understand that acronym" in a room of twenty is demonstrating leadership, not doubt. Backstage support is not support. If you apologize to her in the hallway after the meeting instead of speaking up in the meeting, you were part of it. Look at your leadership page. If you are hiring good women and none of them are on it, the problem is not your pipeline, it is how you are evaluating leadership. When someone assumes you are the safety girl, the win is not the comeback. It is leaving them aware enough to ask the next woman on site what she does instead of guessing. Resources + Links Barb's website: https://constructionbarb.com Barb on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/constructionbarb/ OneLadder to Leadership on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/ONE-LADDER-LEADERSHIP-everyone-ladder/dp/B0GT7MBTGS Constructive Behaviors podcast (Barb's show): https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/constructive-behaviors/id1685754635 Mentioned in the episode: the movie G.I. Jane (1997)