Sure built the technology infrastructure enabling the world's biggest consumer brands to embed complex insurance products directly into their core transactions—from auto purchases to home loans. In this episode of BUILDERS, Wayne Slavin shares how Sure pivoted from a consumer mobile app to B2B infrastructure after insurance executives kept pulling engineers into boardrooms to see the backend, why prospects who choose to build end up on Sure's "wall of shame" after their attempts fail, and the vertical integration strategy that could make legacy carriers obsolete within 20 years.

Topics Discussed

• Sure's founding: turbulence on a Vegas flight led to a prototype that converted 15.91% from ad click to insurance purchase
• The accidental pivot to B2B infrastructure when insurance C-suites started calling people into boardrooms to see Sure's backend system
• How Sure became "chameleons" matching each partner's corner radius, modal behavior, and loader effects to avoid breaking product experiences
• The three failed paths that create Sure's best customers: DIY builds, direct carrier partnerships, and naive marketplace strategies
• Why buy-versus-build objections signal misaligned incentives—enterprise buyers trading career-safe "buy" budgets for execution-risk "build" projects
• The vertical integration roadmap: from collaborative carrier partnerships toward turnkey solutions backed by sovereign wealth funds
• AppleCare as the embedded insurance template: multi-decabillion dollar business now integrated into device selection, storage, color, and financing flows

GTM Lessons For B2B Founders

• Run weekend demand tests before year-long regulatory builds: Wayne built a prototype over a long weekend and drove traffic through Google and Facebook ads to test first principles—do people want to buy insurance online, how soon before travel, how much coverage? The 15.91% conversion rate justified committing a full year to regulatory partnerships before bringing on a team. For founders in regulated spaces, creative demand validation derisks the compliance investment required before launch.
• Watch what gets pulled into the boardroom: Sure pitched their mobile app to insurance C-suites who responded with polite interest. Then executives started calling colleagues into meetings specifically to see Sure's backend operations system—the infrastructure they'd spent hundreds of millions trying to build. After three or four meetings with the same pattern, Wayne realized the backend was the product. Pay attention when prospects ignore your intended offering but get animated about something else entirely.
• Target solution-aware buyers who've already failed: Sure's most successful customers fall into three categories: those who tried building themselves and lost institutional knowledge when engineers left, those who partnered directly with carriers who took customers away and sold them competing products, or those who naively tried offering 50 insurance options when California markets now have two viable carriers. Wayne explicitly doesn't consider prospects choosing to build as their ICP—they lack awareness of execution risk and will waste Sure's time before returning years later.
• Treat build decisions as pipeline, not losses: A prospect from 2020 called yesterday after their DIY attempt resulted in three people leaving the company with nobody understanding how their cobbled system works. Sure maintains a "wall of shame" tracking decision-makers who chose to build and no longer work at those companies. For infrastructure plays with 18-36 month sales cycles, maintain relationships with build-path prospects—they're future pipeline once reality hits.
• Product integration depth wins embedded deals: Sure's differentiation isn't database speed—it's becoming invisible within partners' products. Wayne describes matching exact corner radius, modal patterns, and loader effects so product teams don't fight the insurance insertion. This requires deep product expertise across partners' stacks. For embedded solutions, technical flexibility that respects existing UX decisions matters more than raw performance metrics. Sure enables complex insurance purchases without customers touching their keyboard—everything pre-filled from partner data.
• Map internal buyer incentives in enterprise deals: Wayne observed that enterprise buyers face perverse incentives: requesting more budget and resources for build projects looks good internally, but they're unknowingly trading stable "buy" expenditures for career-ending execution risk. Large companies will pay "a bajillion dollars to Salesforce" because it works and removes risk, not because anyone loves it. Help champions articulate how buying derisks their execution versus the alternative—it's not about your product superiority, it's about their job security.

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