A lot of men were taught that resilience means pushing through.Staying quiet. Handling it alone. Running on empty and calling it strength. In this episode, hosts Mike Cameron and Trevor Botkin slow that story down and take it apart, not as experts looking down, but as men who’ve lived the cost of getting it wrong. Joined by returning guest Dr. David Kuhl, physician, professor, and longtime voice in men’s health, the conversation explores what resilience actually looks like when life brings grief, shame, burnout, or emotional numbness. Drawing from decades of experience in palliative care and trauma-informed work, Dr. Kuhl reframes resilience as a dynamic, relational process shaped by our bodies, our relationships, and the environments we live and work in. Mike shares how unspoken shame followed him years after exiting a business and quietly showed up in his relationship. Trevor reflects on how confusing endurance for resilience led him to self-neglect, substance use, and running himself into the ground. Together, they talk openly about numbness, emotional literacy, and the moment many men reach when “toughing it out” stops working. You’ll hear practical, grounded insights on: Why numbness is a signal, not the absence of feeling How shame fuels isolation and erodes trust The difference between “I made a mistake” and “I am a mistake” Why knowing just one person has your back increases resilience How vulnerability, when practiced honestly, strengthens connection This isn’t about fixing yourself.It’s about paying attention sooner, staying connected, and redefining strength in a way that actually sustains you. If you’ve been pushing through, feeling disconnected, or quietly carrying more than you let on, this conversation offers language, perspective, and permission to pause and look again. Support This Podcast and Canadian Men's Health Foundation https://menshealthfoundation.ca/donate/ Follow Canadian Men’s Health Foundation Website - https://menshealthfoundation.ca/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/menshealthfdn/ Facebook - https://facebook.com/menshealthfoundation   Follow Mike Cameron Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/mikecameron.ca/ Youtube - https://youtube.com/mikecameronspeaks  Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/mikedavidcameron/ X - Mike Cameron (@axiommike) / X  LinkedIn - https://linkedin.com/in/mikecameronWebsite - https://mikecameron.ca/TedX Talk - https://www.ted.com/talks/mike_cameron_redefining_badass_the_way_we_think_about_strong_is_wrong   Follow Trevor Botkin LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/trevor-botkin-869ab5143/ Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Resilience 00:27 Guest Introduction: Dr. David Kool 02:01 Defining Resilience 03:42 Building Resilience Before Adversity 04:58 The Importance of Support Systems 06:17 Understanding Shame and Guilt 08:50 Personal Reflections on Resilience 15:25 Recognizing and Addressing Numbness 20:49 Understanding Emotional Numbness 21:22 The Impact of Societal Expectations 22:01 Personal Struggles and Coping Mechanisms 22:42 The Importance of Emotional Literacy 25:32 The Role of Vulnerability in Relationships 29:14 Holding Space for Others 35:02 The Systemic Nature of Resilience 37:19 Final Thoughts on Connection and VulnerabilitySupport Men & Their Familes: https://menshealthfoundation.ca/donate/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.