<p><strong>Tony Fadell</strong> created the iPod, co-created the iPhone, and founded Nest (which he sold to Google for $3.2 billion). He’s co-authored over 300 patents, was part of the legendary team at General Magic, and wrote one of the most important and inspiring books for builders, called <em>Build</em>.</p><p></p><p><strong>In our in-depth conversation, we discuss:</strong></p><p>1. The heated internal debates about whether the iPhone should have a physical keyboard</p><p>2. Why opinion-based decisions are essential for v1 products</p><p>3. Why marketing matters as much as the product itself, and how the iPod almost failed</p><p>4. Why voice will eventually become the primary interface with AI</p><p>5. Why cognitive surrender to AI is the biggest risk facing product builders today</p><p>—</p><p><strong>Brought to you by:</strong></p><p><a target="_blank" href="https://workos.com/lenny"><strong>WorkOS</strong></a>—Make your app enterprise-ready, with SSO, SCIM, RBAC, and more: <a target="_blank" href="https://workos.com/lenny">https://workos.com/lenny</a></p><p><a target="_blank" href="https://vanta.com/lenny"><strong>Vanta</strong></a>—Automate compliance, manage risk, and accelerate trust with AI: <a target="_blank" href="https://vanta.com/lenny">https://vanta.com/lenny</a></p><p>—</p><p><strong>Episode transcript:</strong> <a target="_blank" href="https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/father-of-the-ipod-and-iphone-on">https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/father-of-the-ipod-and-iphone-on</a></p><p>—</p><p><strong>Archive of all Lenny's Podcast transcripts:</strong> <a target="_blank" href="https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/yxi4s2w998p1gvtpu4193/AMdNPR8AOw0lMklwtnC0TrQ?rlkey=j06x0nipoti519e0xgm23zsn9&#38;st=ahz0fj11&#38;dl=0">https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/yxi4s2w998p1gvtpu4193/AMdNPR8AOw0lMklwtnC0TrQ?rlkey=j06x0nipoti519e0xgm23zsn9&st=ahz0fj11&dl=0</a></p><p>—</p><p><strong>Where to find Tony Fadell:</strong></p><p>• X: <a target="_blank" href="https://x.com/tfadell">https://x.com/tfadell</a></p><p>• LinkedIn: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/tonyfadell">https://www.linkedin.com/in/tonyfadell</a></p><p>• Website: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.buildc.com">https://www.buildc.com</a></p><p>—</p><p><strong>Where to find Lenny:</strong></p><p>• Newsletter: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.lennysnewsletter.com">https://www.lennysnewsletter.com</a></p><p>• X: <a target="_blank" href="https://twitter.com/lennysan">https://twitter.com/lennysan</a></p><p>• LinkedIn: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/">https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/</a></p><p>—</p><p><strong>In this episode, we cover:</strong></p><p>(00:00) Introduction to Tony Fadell</p><p>(02:23) The Blackberry vs. iPhone keyboard debate</p><p>(07:50) Micromanaging vs. kind lies: what great products actually need</p><p>(15:57) The Nest thermostat and smoke alarm story</p><p>(21:22) How to decide what’s worth building: pain plus new technology</p><p>(27:36) The three-generation rule: why nothing works the first time</p><p>(34:20) The full customer journey: why marketing defines your product</p><p>(40:53) The power of storytelling and the press-release-first approach</p><p>(48:37) The evolution of product management and the builder role</p><p>(50:27) Why AI-generated code creates brittle, unmaintainable products</p><p>(58:00) Storytelling techniques</p><p>(1:05:45) The next iPhone</p><p>(1:13:15) Hardware is back</p><p>(1:17:01) What Tony is most excited about</p><p>(1:21:38) Working with Tony</p><p>(1:25:36) Ethics, morals, and the responsibility of product builders</p><p>(1:32:40) How to connect with Tony and Build Collective</p><p>—</p><p><strong>References: </strong><a target="_blank" href="https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/father-of-the-ipod-and-iphone-on">https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/father-of-the-ipod-and-iphone-on</a></p><p>—</p><p>Production and marketing by <a target="_blank" href="https://penname.co/">https://penname.co/</a>. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email <a target="_blank" href="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a>.</p><p>—</p><p><em>Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.</em></p> <br/><br/>To hear more, visit <a href="https://www.lennysnewsletter.com?utm_medium=podcast&#38;utm_campaign=show-notes-no-free-preview-language">www.lennysnewsletter.com</a>