<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Eric Ries&lt;/strong&gt; is the author of &lt;em&gt;The Lean Startup&lt;/em&gt;, a book that reshaped how a generation of founders think about building companies. His new book, &lt;em&gt;Incorruptible&lt;/em&gt;, explains how successful companies are destroyed by failing to protect what makes them valuable, and how to change it.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;In our in-depth conversation, we discuss:&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;1. Why 80% of venture-backed founders are ousted within three years of going public&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;2. The governance structures that protect companies like Anthropic, Costco, and Novo Nordisk&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;3. The simple legal filing that takes two pages and could save your company&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;4. Financial gravity: why successful companies predictably get corrupted into mediocrity&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;5. Why mission-aligned companies like Anthropic reap major benefits from protecting their mission through governance&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;6. Why success won’t protect you—it instead makes you a bigger target&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;—&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Brought to you by:&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;a target="_blank" href="https://workos.com/lenny"&gt;&lt;strong&gt;WorkOS&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/a&gt;—Make your app enterprise-ready, with SSO, SCIM, RBAC, and more: &lt;a target="_blank" href="https://workos.com/lenny"&gt;https://workos.com/lenny&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;a target="_blank" href="https://vanta.com/lenny"&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Vanta&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/a&gt;—Automate compliance, manage risk, and accelerate trust with AI: &lt;a target="_blank" href="https://vanta.com/lenny"&gt;https://vanta.com/lenny&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;—&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Episode transcript:&lt;/strong&gt; &lt;a target="_blank" href="https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-build-a-company-that-withstands"&gt;https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-build-a-company-that-withstands&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;—&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Archive of all Lenny's Podcast transcripts: &lt;/strong&gt;&lt;a target="_blank" href="https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/yxi4s2w998p1gvtpu4193/AMdNPR8AOw0lMklwtnC0TrQ?rlkey=j06x0nipoti519e0xgm23zsn9&amp;#38;st=ahz0fj11&amp;#38;dl=0"&gt;https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/yxi4s2w998p1gvtpu4193/AMdNPR8AOw0lMklwtnC0TrQ?rlkey=j06x0nipoti519e0xgm23zsn9&amp;st=ahz0fj11&amp;dl=0&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;—&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Where to find Eric Ries:&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;• X: &lt;a target="_blank" href="https://x.com/ericries"&gt;https://x.com/ericries&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;• LinkedIn: &lt;a target="_blank" href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/eries"&gt;https://www.linkedin.com/in/eries&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;• Website: &lt;a target="_blank" href="https://www.incorruptible.co"&gt;https://www.incorruptible.co&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;• Newsletter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠&lt;a target="_blank" href="https://news.theleanstartup.com/"&gt;https://news.theleanstartup.com/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;• Podcast:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ &lt;a target="_blank" href="https://ericriesshow.com"&gt;https://ericriesshow.com&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;• YouTube: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠&lt;a target="_blank" href="https://www.youtube.com/@theericriesshow&amp;#8288;&amp;#8288;&amp;#8288;&amp;#8288;&amp;#8288;&amp;#8288;&amp;#8288;&amp;#8288;&amp;#8288;&amp;#8288;&amp;#8288;&amp;#8288;&amp;#8288;&amp;#8288;&amp;#8288;&amp;#8288;&amp;#8288;&amp;#8288;&amp;#8288;&amp;#8288;&amp;#8288;&amp;#8288;&amp;#8288;&amp;#8288;&amp;#8288;&amp;#8288;&amp;#8288;&amp;#8288;&amp;#8288;&amp;#8288;&amp;#8288;&amp;#8288;&amp;#8288;&amp;#8288;&amp;#8288;&amp;#8288;&amp;#8288;&amp;#8288;&amp;#8288;&amp;#8288;"&gt;https://www.youtube.com/@theericriesshow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;—&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Where to find Lenny:&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;• Newsletter: &lt;a target="_blank" href="https://www.lennysnewsletter.com"&gt;https://www.lennysnewsletter.com&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;• X: &lt;a target="_blank" href="https://twitter.com/lennysan"&gt;https://twitter.com/lennysan&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;• LinkedIn: &lt;a target="_blank" href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/"&gt;https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;—&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;In this episode, we cover:&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;(00:00) Introduction to Eric Ries&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;(02:26) Introducing &lt;em&gt;Incorruptible&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;(06:26) Protecting what you’ve built&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;(11:35) Why founders get ousted&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;(14:58) Too early, too late&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;(19:32) The blueprint: ethos plus integrity&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;(20:49) Novo Nordisk’s 100-year governance fortress&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;(26:41) The Vectura Group and Philip Morris&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;(33:16) The “harder is easier” principle&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;(37:22) Cloudflare’s mission emergence story&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;(42:43) Groupon’s email frequency death spiral&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;(45:37) How to define your purpose&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;(51:09) Mission-driven vs. mission-hopeful companies&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;(54:46) Integrity: structural and personal&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;(57:47) Shareholder primacy: the 40-year-old “natural law”&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;(01:00:04) Public benefit corporations: the easiest protection&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;(01:04:24) Downsides and objections&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;(01:06:08) The Anthropic example: fastest-growing company ever&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;(01:08:39) The torchbearers in every organization&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;(01:10:37) The culture bank: deposits and withdrawals&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;(01:12:28) OpenAI and Anthropic governance&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;(01:16:21) Mission guardians explained&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;(01:18:29) Spiritual holding companies&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;(01:21:53) The founder control trap&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;(01:25:25) Three things to do this week&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;(01:30:10) AI alignment and human alignment&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;(01:34:00) Conway’s law: org charts in architecture&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;(01:37:31) Book resources and farewell&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;—&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;References: &lt;/strong&gt;&lt;a target="_blank" href="https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-build-a-company-that-withstands"&gt;https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-build-a-company-that-withstands&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;—&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Production and marketing by &lt;a target="_blank" href="https://penname.co/"&gt;https://penname.co/&lt;/a&gt;. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email &lt;a target="_blank" href="mailto:podcast@lennyrachitsky.com"&gt;podcast@lennyrachitsky.com&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt; &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;To hear more, visit &lt;a href="https://www.lennysnewsletter.com?utm_medium=podcast&amp;#38;utm_campaign=show-notes-no-free-preview-language"&gt;www.lennysnewsletter.com&lt;/a&gt;</description>

Lenny's Podcast: Product | Career | Growth

Lenny Rachitsky

How to build a company that withstands any era | Eric Ries, Lean Startup author

MAY 10, 202699 MIN
Lenny's Podcast: Product | Career | Growth

How to build a company that withstands any era | Eric Ries, Lean Startup author

MAY 10, 202699 MIN

Description

<p><strong>Eric Ries</strong> is the author of <em>The Lean Startup</em>, a book that reshaped how a generation of founders think about building companies. His new book, <em>Incorruptible</em>, explains how successful companies are destroyed by failing to protect what makes them valuable, and how to change it.</p><p></p><p><strong>In our in-depth conversation, we discuss:</strong></p><p>1. Why 80% of venture-backed founders are ousted within three years of going public</p><p>2. The governance structures that protect companies like Anthropic, Costco, and Novo Nordisk</p><p>3. The simple legal filing that takes two pages and could save your company</p><p>4. Financial gravity: why successful companies predictably get corrupted into mediocrity</p><p>5. Why mission-aligned companies like Anthropic reap major benefits from protecting their mission through governance</p><p>6. Why success won’t protect you—it instead makes you a bigger target</p><p>—</p><p><strong>Brought to you by:</strong></p><p><a target="_blank" href="https://workos.com/lenny"><strong>WorkOS</strong></a>—Make your app enterprise-ready, with SSO, SCIM, RBAC, and more: <a target="_blank" href="https://workos.com/lenny">https://workos.com/lenny</a></p><p><a target="_blank" href="https://vanta.com/lenny"><strong>Vanta</strong></a>—Automate compliance, manage risk, and accelerate trust with AI: <a target="_blank" href="https://vanta.com/lenny">https://vanta.com/lenny</a></p><p>—</p><p><strong>Episode transcript:</strong> <a target="_blank" href="https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-build-a-company-that-withstands">https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-build-a-company-that-withstands</a></p><p>—</p><p><strong>Archive of all Lenny's Podcast transcripts: </strong><a target="_blank" href="https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/yxi4s2w998p1gvtpu4193/AMdNPR8AOw0lMklwtnC0TrQ?rlkey=j06x0nipoti519e0xgm23zsn9&#38;st=ahz0fj11&#38;dl=0">https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/yxi4s2w998p1gvtpu4193/AMdNPR8AOw0lMklwtnC0TrQ?rlkey=j06x0nipoti519e0xgm23zsn9&st=ahz0fj11&dl=0</a></p><p>—</p><p><strong>Where to find Eric Ries:</strong></p><p>• X: <a target="_blank" href="https://x.com/ericries">https://x.com/ericries</a></p><p>• LinkedIn: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/eries">https://www.linkedin.com/in/eries</a></p><p>• Website: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.incorruptible.co">https://www.incorruptible.co</a></p><p>• Newsletter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠<a target="_blank" href="https://news.theleanstartup.com/">https://news.theleanstartup.com/</a></p><p>• Podcast:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ <a target="_blank" href="https://ericriesshow.com">https://ericriesshow.com</a></p><p>• YouTube: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠<a target="_blank" href="https://www.youtube.com/@theericriesshow&#8288;&#8288;&#8288;&#8288;&#8288;&#8288;&#8288;&#8288;&#8288;&#8288;&#8288;&#8288;&#8288;&#8288;&#8288;&#8288;&#8288;&#8288;&#8288;&#8288;&#8288;&#8288;&#8288;&#8288;&#8288;&#8288;&#8288;&#8288;&#8288;&#8288;&#8288;&#8288;&#8288;&#8288;&#8288;&#8288;&#8288;&#8288;&#8288;&#8288;">https://www.youtube.com/@theericriesshow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠</a></p><p>—</p><p><strong>Where to find Lenny:</strong></p><p>• Newsletter: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.lennysnewsletter.com">https://www.lennysnewsletter.com</a></p><p>• X: <a target="_blank" href="https://twitter.com/lennysan">https://twitter.com/lennysan</a></p><p>• LinkedIn: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/">https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/</a></p><p>—</p><p><strong>In this episode, we cover:</strong></p><p>(00:00) Introduction to Eric Ries</p><p>(02:26) Introducing <em>Incorruptible</em></p><p>(06:26) Protecting what you’ve built</p><p>(11:35) Why founders get ousted</p><p>(14:58) Too early, too late</p><p>(19:32) The blueprint: ethos plus integrity</p><p>(20:49) Novo Nordisk’s 100-year governance fortress</p><p>(26:41) The Vectura Group and Philip Morris</p><p>(33:16) The “harder is easier” principle</p><p>(37:22) Cloudflare’s mission emergence story</p><p>(42:43) Groupon’s email frequency death spiral</p><p>(45:37) How to define your purpose</p><p>(51:09) Mission-driven vs. mission-hopeful companies</p><p>(54:46) Integrity: structural and personal</p><p>(57:47) Shareholder primacy: the 40-year-old “natural law”</p><p>(01:00:04) Public benefit corporations: the easiest protection</p><p>(01:04:24) Downsides and objections</p><p>(01:06:08) The Anthropic example: fastest-growing company ever</p><p>(01:08:39) The torchbearers in every organization</p><p>(01:10:37) The culture bank: deposits and withdrawals</p><p>(01:12:28) OpenAI and Anthropic governance</p><p>(01:16:21) Mission guardians explained</p><p>(01:18:29) Spiritual holding companies</p><p>(01:21:53) The founder control trap</p><p>(01:25:25) Three things to do this week</p><p>(01:30:10) AI alignment and human alignment</p><p>(01:34:00) Conway’s law: org charts in architecture</p><p>(01:37:31) Book resources and farewell</p><p>—</p><p><strong>References: </strong><a target="_blank" href="https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-build-a-company-that-withstands">https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-build-a-company-that-withstands</a></p><p>—</p><p>Production and marketing by <a target="_blank" href="https://penname.co/">https://penname.co/</a>. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email <a target="_blank" href="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a>.</p><p><em>Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.</em></p> <br/><br/>To hear more, visit <a href="https://www.lennysnewsletter.com?utm_medium=podcast&#38;utm_campaign=show-notes-no-free-preview-language">www.lennysnewsletter.com</a>