<p><strong>ABOUT THE EPISODE</strong></p><p>Listen in as David Schrock &amp; Stephen Wellum interview Alex Kocman on his COA Longform Essay &quot;Was Jesus a Refugee? And Why It Matters for Immigration&quot;</p><p><strong>Timestamps</strong></p><ul><li>00:30 – Intro</li><li>04:50 – Alex’s Role in ABWE &amp; Christmas Teaching</li><li>07:37 – What is a Refugee?</li><li>09:22 – How Do We Seek to Correctly Interpret Scripture?</li><li>11:20 – Refugees and Migration</li><li>15:10 – What Does Scripture Say in Regards to the Refugee, Sojourner, etc.?</li><li>18:00 – What Makes it Difficult to Think in Categories?</li><li>21:25 – Thinking About How These Things Affect Nationhood</li><li>25:52 – What Key Things Should We See from <a href="https://www.esv.org/verses/Matthew%202/" target="_blank">Matthew 2</a>?</li><li>29:39 – What is the Main Emphasis of the Gospel of Matthew?</li><li>33:00 – What are the Dissimilarities Between Immigrant and Refugee?</li><li>36:57 – What are the Church’s and State’s Responsibilities Towards These People?</li><li>43:40 – Dr. Wellum’s Perspective on Immigration</li><li>50:26 – The Order Amoris</li><li>56:14 – Final Thoughts</li><li>57:23 – Outro</li></ul><p><strong>Resources to Click</strong></p><ul><li><a href="https://christoverall.com/article/longform/was-jesus-a-refugee-and-why-it-matters-for-the-immigration-issue/">“Was Jesus a Refugee? And Why It Matters for the Immigration Issue”</a> – Alex Kocman</li><li><a href="https://youtu.be/egMXPBO2iK0?si=L_VA0viuRWYdeJzJ">“Christian Nationalism Misconceptions with David Schrock &amp; Steve Wellum</a>” – The Missions Podcast</li><li><a href="https://hegetsus.com/en/articles/jesus-was-a-refugee">“Jesus Was a Refugee”</a> – He Gets Us</li><li><a href="https://www.christianitytoday.com/2025/01/jesus-refugee-camp-war-christians-russell-moore/">“Yes, Jesus Was a Refugee”</a> – Russell Moore</li><li><a href="https://www.sneucc.org/postdetail/jesus-was-a-refugee-10150466">“Jesus Was a Refugee and an Immigrant</a>” – Lindsay Popperson</li><li><a href="https://www.saltproject.org/progressive-christian-blog/2018/12/5/jesus-was-a-refugee">“Jesus Was a Refugee”</a> – Salt</li><li><a href="https://notthebee.com/article/pastor-defends-illegal-immigrant-ordered-to-self-deport-by-saying-the-bible-is-about-god-saving-us-through-immigration">“Pastor Defends Illegal Alien by Saying the Bible is about “God saving us through immigration””</a> – Not the Bee</li><li><a href="https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1101">“U.S. Code, Title 8, Aliens and Nationality ẞ1101(a)(42)”</a> – Legal Information Institute</li><li><a href="https://ohss.dhs.gov/topics/immigration/refugees/annual-flow-report/fy-24-refugees-flow-report">“Refugees: 2024”</a> – Amanda Yap, U.S. Dept. of Homeland Security</li><li><a href="https://thecatholicherald.com/article/desecrations-threats-and-silence-anti-christian-violence-grips-france">“Desecrations, threats, and silence: anti-Christian violence grips France”</a> – Gavin Mortimer</li><li><a href="https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2025/11/18/arson-attacks-on-christian-churches-rise-to-record-high-in-germany/">“Arson Attacks on Christian Churches Rise to Record High in Germany”</a> – Kurt Zindulka</li><li><a href="https://rmx.news/article/some-migrant-groups-are-disproportionately-criminal-due-to-cultural-factors-claims-renowned-swiss-forensic-psychiatrist/">“Some migrant groups are ‘disproportionately criminal’ due to cultural factors, claims renowned Swiss forensic psychiatrist”</a> – Thomas Brooke</li><li><a href="https://www.foxnews.com/world/dublin-protesters-clash-police-burn-vehicle-after-migrant-accused-sexually-assaulting-irish-girl-10">“Dublin protestors clash with police, burn vehicle after migrant accused of sexually assaulting Irish girl”</a> – Michael Dorgan</li><li><a href="https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2025/08/03/police-accused-of-covering-up-alleged-asylum-seeker-child-rape-for-fear-of-inflaming-community-tensions/">“Police accused of covering up alleged asylum seeker child rape for fear of ‘Inflaming community tensions’”</a> – Kurt Zindulka</li><li><a href="https://notthebee.com/article/the-british-parliament-has-rejected-an-inquiry-into-the-rotherham-rape-gang-scandal-by-a-wide-majority">“British Parliament rejects inquiry in the ongoing pedophile rape-gang scandal (by a wide majority)”</a> – Edward Teach</li><li>Theme of the Month: <a href="https://christoverall.com/theme/christmas-buffet/">Christmas Buffet</a></li><li><a href="https://christoverall.com/give/">Give to Support the Work</a></li></ul><p><br></p>