All marketers have to find the balance between subjective feelings and objective metrics, and Cooley's Matt Lieberman is no exception. As the elite law firm's Chief Marketing and Business Development Officer, and the former CMO of PwC, Matt says the professional services industry comes with unique challenges and high stakes. That means he sometimes has to challenge coworkers on the value of certain activations, or the language they use. "I joke at Cooley that one of the things that we're really good at here is using adjectives," he says. "When I say how was an event or what was a piece of content, they say it was amazing. It was awesome. It was excellent. And I don't mean to be flippant, but I was like, can you please tell me what 'amazing' or 'awesome' mean?" Today on Building Better CMOs, Matt and Greg talk about the "ongoing journey" of integrating data into a legacy business culture; how professional services firms and their partners can better communicate their value to clients; and why, in your career, "it's often good to take a step laterally down ... in order to get to the next step where you want to get to." Chapters: 0:00 Introduction 2:37 From Hollywood Creative to Business Consultant 4:53 Cooley and Law Firm Marketing 7:01 The Evolution of Professional Services Marketing 8:51 The Challenges of Marketing for Individual Partners 13:17 Turning Regulations into Client Insights 15:46 Differentiating Firm Personalities and Culture 19:53 Career Advice: Running To vs. Running From 24:43 Being a Lifelong Student in B2B Marketing 29:52 Upskilling Teams Through "Infinite Learning" 33:14 Aligning Marketing Strategy with Firm Goals 37:09 Moving Beyond Vanity Metrics 43:02 Advanced Personalization and Targeting 49:17 The Impact of AI on Marketing Full transcript⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ This episode was produced and edited by Eric Johnson from ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LightningPod⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Follow Building Better CMOs in your podcast app⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Rate and review the podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Matt's LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Greg's LinkedIn