Tried and Tested Podcast

As assessment programs confront increasingly sophisticated fraud and rapid advances in Artificial Intelligence, protecting trust and integrity has never been more complex. In this episode of Tried and Tested, host Isabelle Gonthier, PhD, ICE-CCP sits down with Paul Muir, Chief Customer Officer at risr/ and Board Chair of the Association of Test Publishers, for a candid conversation recorded live at the ATP Innovations in Testing Conference.With more than 25 years in the assessment industry, Paul shares a front‑line perspective on test security, the rise of agentic AI, and the evolving role of industry collaboration. Together, they explore how assessment leaders can move from reactive security measures to more strategic, forward‑looking approaches, and how ATP is helping guide the community through a period of rapid technological change.What you’ll learn:How the test security threat landscape is evolving, including organized cheating, content harvesting, and increasingly sophisticated fraud techniquesWhere assessment and credentialing programs remain most vulnerable today, and why keeping pace with fraud is such a challengeWhat agentic AI means in the context of assessment, and how more autonomous systems introduce both new risks and new opportunitiesHow AI can be used proactively to strengthen test security rather than simply reacting to emerging threatsHow Paul’s dual perspective as a technology leader and ATP Board Chair informs his view of where assessment is headedThe role ATP plays in helping the industry navigate innovation, security, and trust during periods of rapid changeWhy collaboration and community engagement are critical to protecting the integrity of assessment programsWho should listen:Assessment and credentialing leaders responsible for program integrityTest security, compliance, and risk professionalsEducation and assessment technology providersOrganizations exploring or deploying AI in assessment programsATP members and professionals engaged in the broader assessment communityAbout the guest:Paul Muir serves as the Chief Customer Officer at risr/ and currently holds the position of Board Chair for the Association of Test Publishers (ATP). With over 25 years of experience in the assessment sector, Paul is an experienced leader and active volunteer, specialising in areas such as test security, assessment reform, technology-enabled assessment, and Artificial Intelligence. Since joining risr/ in 2024, Paul, who is based in the UK, has been responsible for driving thought leadership, developing strategic partnerships, and fostering engagement across the industry, community, and customer base.

In this episode of Tried and Tested, host Isabelle Gonthier, PhD,- ICE CCP, Chief Assessment Officer at PSI and ETS, sits down with Jenn McNamara, Vice President of Strategic Products and Partnerships at BreakAway Games. Recorded live at the ATP Conference, the conversation explores how serious games are being used to support authentic, performance based assessment across defense, healthcare, and professional credentialing programs.Jenn shares how game based environments can capture real world decision making, reduce traditional test effects, and provide richer evidence of readiness than item based assessments alone. The discussion also covers the role of AI in game design and assessment delivery, the importance of accessibility by design, and what emerging innovation trends signal about the future of assessment.What you’ll learn:How “serious games” are defined and how they differ from surface level gamificationWhy authenticity, particularly cognitive fidelity, matters more than visual realism in assessment designWhat immersive, strategy based environments can reveal about real world decision making, stress, and readinessHow independent research and validation help make game based assessment credible and defensible in high stakes contextsWhere serious games are most effective in assessment programs, and where assessment leaders should be cautiousHow AI is influencing the future of immersive assessment, including adaptive scenarios and content variation, while maintaining rigor and fairnessWho should listen:Credentialing and certification leaders exploring authentic or performance based assessment approachesAssessment professionals seeking new ways to evaluate decision making, judgment, and applied skillsPsychometricians and assessment designers interested in emerging item types and validation modelsProgram owners responsible for accessibility, candidate experience, and exam integrityTesting and education technology professionals tracking the role of serious games and AI in assessmentAbout the Guest:Jenn McNamara is Vice President of Strategic Products and Partnerships at BreakAway Games, focused on delivering immersive solutions for education, assessment, and performance support. With over 25 years of experience in cognitive psychology, serious games, and AI-driven systems research and development, Jenn is a recognized leader and trusted partner raising the standard of advanced, technology-driven learning and assessment for defense, healthcare, and corporate sectors. Jenn’s pioneering design and development approaches set the accessibility standard for serious games. She speaks frequently at conferences including I/ITSEC, ATP Innovations in Testing, Serious Play, and Games for Change. In volunteer support of the industry, Jenn also directs the nonprofit Serious Games Showcase & Challenge and serves in leadership roles with the NDIA Human Systems Conference, Serious Play Conference, and ATP Innovations in Testing Conference.

This is our 50th episode of Tried & Tested and we’re marking the milestone with a conversation about what may be one of the biggest questions facing the workforce right now: how do people prove what they can do as change accelerates? Host Isabelle Gonthier welcomes Libby Rodney, Chief Strategy Officer at The Harris Poll, to unpack what “proof” looks like in today’s disrupted environment and why credentials are increasingly tied to confidence, mobility, and opportunity.Drawing on The Harris Poll research behind the 2026 ETS Human Progress Report, Libby Rodney explains how leaders can move beyond noisy narratives and toward signals that actually matter, especially as workers face rapid disruption, shifting skill demands, and rising pressure to demonstrate adaptability. Together, they explore the widening gap between interest and access, the need for clearer employer signals about what’s valued, and why the future of credentialing depends on trust, alignment, and measurable evidence, not just storytelling.What you’ll learn:What “proof of skills” really means in a labor market shaped by constant disruption and why workers are seeking evidence they can carry across roles and industries.How the 2026 ETS Human Progress Report was designed, including the role of benchmarking and how the focus evolved toward adaptability as a cornerstone theme.Why credentials are rising in importance right now, including the connection between workplace anxiety and the need for verifiable evidence of capability.What’s driving the demand vs. access gap (high interest, lower access), and the practical barriers that keep people from pursuing credentials.Why employer clarity is the unlock: what workers need employers to specify about which credentials matter, and why ambiguity discourages investment before cost even enters the picture.How AI is reshaping credential expectations, including why many workers want formal certification to verify AI skills, and why “using AI” isn’t the same as using it well.Who should listen:Credentialing, certification, and assessment leaders designing programs that must earn trust and prove value.Employers, HR, and workforce strategy teams deciding which skills and credentials matter most.Education and training leaders working to close the gap between learning pathways and real-world opportunity.About the guest:A scenario planner, cultural strategist, and navigation expert, Libby Rodney serves as Chief Strategy Officer at The Harris Poll where she helps Fortune 100 executives decode uncertainty and navigate transformational change. Creator of “The Next Big Think!” substack and co-host of “So Get This” podcast (new on Bubbler/iHeart Radio), her cultural intelligence framework has predicted major shifts including “quiet vacationing,” FOBO (fear of being obsolete), and the “lottery over logic economy.” Libby has commanded global stages at Davos, Cannes Lions, SXSW, Forbes CMO summit, Ad Week, and CES, establishing her as the go-to cultural decoder for organizations seeking to see around corners. Libby’s insights have been featured across major media outlets where she has become known for revealing not just what’s trending, but what companies must pay attention to in the next 18 months.

As questions around remote testing and test security continue to surface across the assessment landscape, how can programs move beyond perception and focus on evidence? In this episode of Tried and Tested, host Isabelle Gonthier is joined by Paul Gollash, SVP of TOEFL and GRE at ETS, and Wally Dalrymple, Chief Security Officer at PSI and ETS, for a timely conversation on trust, data, and delivery modalities.Together, they explore how the TOEFL program has evolved a layered security model across both test center and remote delivery. The result is measurable outcomes showing that differences between remote and test center delivery have narrowed to a minimal level. From identity verification and fraud indicators to data driven decision making and continuous improvement, this episode offers a practical and credible look at how security, scale, and trust come together in modern assessment programs.What you’ll learn:Why remote testing and test center delivery have distinct risk profiles, and how purpose built security approaches for each modality strengthen overall test integrityHow the TOEFL program designed and evolved a layered security model that spans the full assessment lifecycle, from registration and identity verification through delivery, review, and continuous improvementWhat layered security looks like in practice, including how multiple controls work together to deter fraud, detect risk, and protect score integrity when individual signals alone are insufficientHow ETS and PSI measure the real-world impact of specific security controls, including what the data reveals when individual layers are modified or removedWhy outcome based measures, such as score patterns and pass rate alignment, provide a more meaningful indicator of trust than incident counts or flagged events aloneHow operating at global scale enables stronger pattern detection, faster response to emerging threats, and continuous refinement of security strategies across programs and modalitiesHow AI is influencing both sides of the equation, accelerating new forms of fraud while also strengthening detection, analysis, and decision-making within modern test security programsWhat assessment leaders should consider as trust, security, and delivery models continue to evolve in an environment where risk, technology, and stakeholder expectations are constantly changingWho should listen:Assessment, credentialing, and certification leaders responsible for program integrity and long term trustTest security, fraud prevention, and risk professionals designing or evaluating security models across delivery modalitiesHigher education institutions, regulators, and score accepting organizations seeking evidence based perspectives on remote testing outcomesProgram owners and product leaders balancing access, candidate experience, and rigorous security requirementsOrganizations navigating concern around the credibility of remote English language testing and other high stakes assessments

In this special HiSET edition of Tried and Tested, host Isabelle Gonthier, PhD, ICE-CCP welcomes vice president of the HiSET program Tanya Guerrero Haug, who sits down with Wyvonne Stevens‑Carter, Associate Commissioner for Public Adult Education at the Massachusetts Department of Elementary and Secondary Education. Recorded live at the HiSET Boston Roadshow, the conversation highlights how Massachusetts is expanding access to high school equivalency through statewide funding, flexible transcript policies, and partnerships that prioritize learner experience.Isabelle and Tanya also reflect on why the Massachusetts model stands out across the nation. From student ambassadors and staff pipelines to community‑driven innovation, this episode shows what is possible when policies remove barriers and adult learners are invited to lead. It is a compelling look at how assessment can open doors for individuals, families, and entire communities.What you’ll learn:How Massachusetts funds high school equivalency testing statewide and why this increases access for learners. Why the skills gap may actually be an investment gap and what this means for workforce development. How student ambassadors and student‑to‑staff pipelines create new opportunities for adult learners. The role partnerships play in strengthening adult education and supporting diverse learner needs. Key policy decisions that made Massachusetts a national example in high school equivalency access.Who should listen:Adult education leaders, instructors, and administratorsWorkforce development and policy professionalsCredentialing and assessment partners working to improve accessEmployers seeking to better understand the value adult learners bringAnyone committed to building opportunity through education and assessmentAbout the GuestsTanya Guerrero Haug, Vice President of HiSET, oversees the HiSET Program supporting the 30 states and territories that have adopted the HiSET. In this role, Tanya coordinates with the PSI HiSET Program teams, the HiSET Board, state directors and administrators, adult education providers, test centers, employers, and higher education institutions.Tanya’s team is directly responsible for HiSET contracts and partnerships, the HiSET suite of products, and adult education outreach. She oversees the HiSET webinars and conferences to keep professional development and program updates accessible. For more than 20 years, she has demonstrated her commitment to education by the various positions she has held in the industry and by her active community service.Wyvonne Stevens Carter is a senior education and workforce systems leader with deep expertise in adult education policy, cross agency alignment, and public investment strategy. As Associate Commissioner of Adult and Community Learning Services at the Massachusetts Department of Elementary and Secondary Education, she leads statewide efforts to strengthen adult learning systems that advance economic mobility, workforce readiness, and civic participation.Her work centers on designing and operating large scale public systems, aligning state and federal policy, funding, and accountability to ensure adult learners can access high quality pathways into postsecondary education, credentials, and family sustaining employment. She oversees complex funding portfolios, guides competitive procurements and performance based initiatives, and translates policy into clear operational frameworks that support implementation at scale.She brings particular strengths in state and federal policy implementation across adult education, workforce, and career pathways; systems integration spanning education, workforce development, and economic development; equity driven strategy and governance; fiscal oversight and public investment stewardship; data informed accountability and continuous improvement; and partnership development with government agencies, employers, higher education, and community organizations.