Feminist economist Naila Kabeer joins Sanam and Kavita on the leadership podcast If You Were In Charge to ask why we still measure success in GDP and what we could build if we counted care, peace and the planet. A clear-eyed, hopeful conversation about Beyond GDP, the absurd cost of the war in Iran for future generations, and the everyday agency that changes the world. A leadership podcast about people, power and possibilities. On this episode before we get to the interview, Sanam and Kavita pick up the threads Naila weaves through the conversation. They look at the $20 trillion annual cost of war, the way the care economy quietly runs on immigrant women, and the Iranian paradox where 65% of university professors are women inside a theocracy. A vivid reminder of why we need new ways to measure what's actually working in our societies. We then welcome in Naila who explains how GDP was invented in wartime to count what could be sold, and what it has always quietly excluded: the unpaid work that holds families together, the rivers and forests that hold up the planet, and a system now monopolised by a handful of oligarchs. She unpacks the staggering price tag of war nearly $20 trillion a year, around 11.6% of global GDP and asks what we could build instead if we counted care, peace, human capabilities, and the rights of the living world. We also hear about her new book “Renegotiating Patriarchy: Gender, Agency and the Bangladesh Paradox” — a study of how ordinary women, in some of the most oppressive circumstances, have changed their societies not through revolution but through everyday persistence. “Despair is a luxury for the well-off. I do not think we can afford to despair.” Enjoyed this episode? Follow If You Were In Charge wherever you listen and leave a rating to help more people find the show. Get in touch and stay connected: Email ICAN: [email protected] Sign up to the ICAN newsletter: https://icanpeacework.org/2025/03/sign-up-to-icans-newsletter/ More from us: adapodcasts.com If You Were In Charge is brought to you by ICAN, the International Civil Society Action Network. An ADA Production. Naila Kabeer Links. LSE faculty page: https://www.lse.ac.uk/international-development/people/naila-kabeer Naila's personal site (books, articles, talks): https://nailakabeer.net/ Renegotiating Patriarchy — free open-access download (LSE Press, 2024): https://press.lse.ac.uk/books/m/10.31389/lsepress.rpg UN High-Level Expert Group on Beyond GDP — members: https://www.un.org/en/beyondGDP/members IAFFE Feminist Economics Podcast (Kavita mentions this at the end): https://www.iaffe.org/feminist-economics-podcast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices