The Panel

Corey shares how he moved from marketing into coding, why he still keeps technical co-founders on some products, and how he thinks about balancing services, software, and content. The group also digs into AEO, paid ads, churn in productized services, and why manual customer research still matters. Timestamps: 00:00 - Intro 02:20 - Corey Haines and Conversion Factory 04:33 - Does everyone still need a technical co-founder? 06:21 - How Corey went from marketing to coding 10:08 - TrueList, Magister, and Corey’s other products 13:01 - Running several products instead of betting on one 15:26 - Building a business around a personal brand 17:33 - How AI changes testing ideas and building products 20:58 - Automated testing across 30 repos 24:50 - Spreading the risk across multiple products 27:24 - Josh Pigford and the debate over focus 31:31 - Why some products grow and then fade 34:33 - What to do when growth stalls 36:48 - SendFox, focus, and what counts as winning 38:52 - Churn and sales challenges in productized services 41:40 - Selling AI implementation and SEO services 46:14 - The value of talking to people 48:29 - What parts of marketing can you productize? 50:26 - SaaS marketing has changed—and Google feels it 52:52 - Which marketing channels should you try first? 56:24 - Finding the first customers for a niche product 59:14 - Learning how customers talk and buy 01:03:04 - AEO results: more visibility, traffic, and booked calls 01:05:24 - AEO beyond your own website 01:08:04 - The work AI still can’t skip 01:11:50 - Brian’s mix of ads, cold email, and experiments 01:16:03 - Growth curves and finding the next marketing channel 01:20:32 - Faster MVPs and choosing what to build 01:22:28 - Products Brian actually wants to work on 01:24:54 - Finding customers and problems worth solving YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️ 🎤 Send us an audio or video message 📧 Email us: [email protected] 📺 Leave a comment on YouTube 🦋 Reply on Bluesky Links mentioned in this episode: Ruben’s comment on AI and marketing Josh Pigford’s new startup Corey Haines on GitHub Magister Marketing — AI Marketing Agent Jason Cohen’s “Elephant in the Room” Brian Casel on selling Productize Tim Soulo: “The only competitive advantage left is effort.” Conversion Factory — On-Demand Marketing for Tech Companies Corey Haines — Marketer, Builder, Writer Marketing Skills for Claude Code and AI Agents Truelist — Email Validation Platform Marc Lou on X Charleston AI — AI Engineering, Classes & Repair

Is DHH right in his prediction that handcrafted coding is done, is trying to "be the best" the best strategy, and can you skip the hard work and just do the easy parts of product launching and still find success? Chapters: (00:11) - Welcome to the Panel Podcast (03:04) - DHH's Flamethrower Keynote (09:07) - The End of Handcrafting Code (12:35) - Who Wants It the Most (16:08) - Marketing with AI and Manual Grind (24:56) - Being the Best in Your Category (35:49) - Product Decision Making in 2026 (47:46) - Sam Altman's Advice on Focus (54:01) - Risk and Opportunity in AI (01:00:33) - Building vs Acquiring Businesses (01:19:30) - The Independent Sponsor Model (01:33:16) - Staying in Motion and Shipping Links: DHH keynote at Rails World Derrick Reimer on finding business ideas Ruben Gamez tweet Olly tweet MicroConf Europe AngelList TinySeed Amp Grok Muse Instinct Grok Bot ElevenLabs Reception.ai DocuSign Flywrite Mimeo Miro Evernote Bending Spoons

We’re joined by Aaron Francis who shares his experience after joining Laravel, Laravel's evolution, marketing strategies, and the future of cloud computing. How is Jev changing the cost and way we use LLMs. And what is the future of education and training on the web? Timestamps: 00:00 - Intro 03:03 - Aaron's Laracon reveal and why he took the job 09:03 - Open source roots, cloud money, and VC-scale growth 14:58 - Who Laravel Cloud is actually built for 19:07 - Taylor's "best in category" tweet, unpacked 22:52 - Ambition and care beat chasing every feature 27:02 - Founders need a point of view, not just a new tool 31:46 - PHP's culture keep Laravel grounded 35:25 - Justin's Vegas Retreat 45:10 - Introducing Jev, and how it's different from an LLM 58:23 - Rosie, ChatGPT Live, and whether full-stack agents are any good 62:16 - "Eat the pain" for your customers as a strategy 77:41 - Aaron's Astra 3D office walkthrough demo 81:11 - Are courses dead? Where dev education goes next YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️ 🎤 Send us an audio or video message 📧 Email us: [email protected] 📺 Leave a comment on YouTube 🦋 Reply on Bluesky Links mentioned in this episode: Jev announcement post Syntax: WTF is Jev? Aaron's product - Solo Aaron's 3D modeling with Astra 90s PC game: Incredible Machine New Builder Methods page Aaron Francis Introducing GPT-Live | OpenAI TypeSafe AI Free AI Voice Generator & Voice Agents Platform | ElevenLabs Compare AI Models: Pricing, Context & Benchmarks | OpenRouter

Justin Jackson, Brian Casel, and Jordan Gal to dissect Jason Cohen's latest skills, particularly the 'Find Your Carol' AI exercise that reveals how customers truly perceive a business. The trio debates aggressive growth experiments versus refining existing funnels, analyzing why street interviews might outperform traditional UGC ads for prospecting. They also tackle the strategic decision of whether to keep product features bundled or spin them off into separate brands, while reflecting on the changing landscape of SaaS valuations and the challenges of maintaining energy as a solo founder. Chapters: (00:10) - Welcome and Introduction (00:30) - Jason Cohen's Hidden Multipliers (06:46) - Growth Experiment Mode (11:06) - New Ad Formats and Street Interviews (20:05) - Unconventional Marketing Strategies (38:23) - Low Energy and Company of One (45:45) - Building Systems with AI Agents (59:45) - Twitter Story and Workshop Updates (01:10:13) - Spots.fm Marketplace Strategy (01:22:09) - Buying vs Selling a Business (01:31:33) - Separate Brands for Different Markets (01:38:01) - Diversification and Exit Multiples (01:41:11) - ARR vs EBITDA Valuation (01:44:30) - Closing and Feedback Mentioned in this episode: Hidden Multipliers: Jumpstart Growth With Your Existing Budget and Team by Jason Cohen Find Your Carol | Skills from A Smart Bear Come to Charleston AI for all of your AI needs (r/TrueAnon) OrbanAI — AI agents that run inside your systems Tim Aton (@Tim_Aton) on X Company Of One: Why Staying Small Is the Next Big Thing for Business by Paul Jarvis Andrew Warner (@AndrewWarner) on X What Are Orbs? - Amp Spots.fm — Sponsor independent creators Kit: The Platform for Creators

Jordan says you need to have patience and urgency. Justin says, "focus on the little red box that creates results." Brian is thinking strategically about courses vs. downloadable products. Chapters: (00:10) - Welcome to The Panel (01:18) - Summer Ending and Fall Rush (04:28) - Motivation and Dissatisfaction (09:40) - Revenue Goal of One Million (12:54) - Patient Urgency Concept (21:11) - Focus on What Actually Matters (28:45) - Growing a Company of One (35:33) - Hiring for Customer Success (39:11) - Courses Versus Software Products (46:28) - Doing the Hardest Thing (57:57) - Personal Connections in Marketing (01:14:16) - Competitor Collapse and Lessons (01:19:32) - Brian's Product Strategy Mentioned in this episode: "I want $100 million" "You can make it complicated, or you can hit the golf ball." Justin's episode: "Don't over-engineer it" Justin's drawing: "Focus on what matters (the little red box)" Ryan Carson: "How I manage 15 AI agents 24/7 as a solo founder" Brian's Mimeo product "When you bundle too much in your product, your positioning becomes vague" Freshbooks CEO started a secret company to compete with his existing product