Welcome to What We Don't Know with Matt Brittin & Hayaatun Sillem. The show about better leadership in a truly chaotic world. Across the series, episodes are joined a range of other leading figures, bringing different perspectives to each conversation. Subscribe to not miss an episode! ▶️ ⚡️ Powered by Boxlight.io https://www.boxlight.io/ ------ This week, Hayaatun is joined by Jimmy McLoughlin OBE, host of ⁨@jimmysjobs⁩ , to welcome Baroness Sharon White. Sharon White traces her journey from a working-class East London childhood — daughter of Windrush generation parents who left school at 11 and 14 — through 26 years as one of Whitehall's most senior but deliberately invisible civil servants, to leading OFCOM and later the John Lewis Partnership through COVID and financial turbulence. She shares why being impossible to read became a strategic asset, how the insider/outsider experience of growing up as a minority shaped her willingness to hold unpopular positions, and why she believes the problems facing political leaders today are categorically harder than a generation ago. She reflects on what it takes to lead 80,000 partners through a democratic business structure unlike anything in the private sector, why a reluctant regulator is a better regulator, and how to tell the difference between noise and what's actually real when everything feels urgent. She also discusses building crisis-ready teams before the crisis hits, the leadership skill she thinks nobody talks about enough — and what her teenage son taught her about inclusion. Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 01:38 Introducing Sharon White 03:56 What To Expect Today 04:30 Backstage At Number 10 06:53 Politics In The Social Media Age 08:36 Childhood And Immigrant Roots 13:43 Finding Her Voice 20:02 Purpose Across Career Switches 29:03 Earning Trust In New Worlds 32:50 Becoming Public Facing 36:40 Reluctant Regulator Mindset 40:28 Partnership Democracy Model 41:12 Customer Love and Stakeholders 43:20 Employee Ownership Pride 45:25 Resilience and Gratitude Mindset 47:30 Growth Needs Brave Leadership 51:12 Leading Through Constant Crises 53:07 Parenthood and Inclusion Lessons 56:18 Bravery and De Klerk Story 59:05 Quickfire Leadership Questions 01:01:33 Hosts Reflect on Key Takeaways 01:07:33 Duolingo Taxi Hiring Test 01:11:54 Meta AI Leader Avatars Debate 01:14:12 Wrap Up and Stay Connected Credits: Producer: Sunny Winter Producer: Thuy Dong Producer: Jimmy McLoughlin OBE Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices