Bill Burnett and Dave Evans created perhaps the most popular course at Stanford, "Designing Your Life," and co-authored the book "How to Live a Meaningful Life." This conversation explores the intersection of product design and personal development. We discuss the loneliness epidemic, why there is no best self, curiosity as the gateway drug to wonder, the transactional world versus the flow world, and why the wisest people across every tradition all arrive at the same conclusion. This one broke me open in the best way possible. Enjoy! Show notes + MORE Watch on YouTube Newsletter Sign-Up Today's Sponsors: Rivian: Electric vehicles that keep the world adventurous forever👉🏼https://www.rivian.com  Seed: Use code RICHROLL25 for 25% OFF your first order👉🏼https://www.seed.com/RichRoll  BetterHelp: Get 10% OFF the first month👉🏼https://www.betterhelp.com/richroll  Go Brewing: Use the code Rich Roll for 15% OFF👉🏼https://www.gobrewing.com  WHOOP: The all-new WHOOP 5.0 is here! Get your first month FREE👉🏼https://www.join.whoop.com/Roll  Check out all of the amazing discounts from our Sponsors👉🏼https://www.richroll.com/sponsors Find out more about Voicing Change Media at https://www.voicingchange.media and follow us @voicingchange