The Dead Can't Sue

Tilly Devine (1900-1970) was a founding mother of Sydney's underbelly, and, as NSW police commissioner Norman Allan simply said: "She was a villain, but who am I to judge her?" Luckily Leigh and Alecia love to judge. Beyond the rivals, razor blades and racketeering, they ask: Was Tilly the original girl (mob) boss? Why did she shoot her fiancé a few months before their wedding? (Yes, the marriage still went ahead.) And while we're here, what drives our national fixation with outlaws like Tilly? Show sources: Matilda Mary (Tilly) Devine (1900–1970), Daily Mirror Sydney, 24 November 1970, p 9  Kay Saunders, Notorious Australian Women (ABC Books, 2013) Nancy Cushing 'The Long History of Australian Gangs' in A History of Crime in Australia (Routledge, 2023) Judith Allen, 'Devine, Matilda Mary (Tilly) (1900–1970)', Australian Dictionary of Biography, National Centre of Biography, Australian National University Anna Clark, Gabrielle Kemmis and Tamson Pietsch, My Darlinghurst (NewSouth, 1st edn, 2024) Hosted by Alecia Simmonds and Leigh Boucher Supervising Producer: Hannah Reich Development Producer: Beverley Wang Executive Producers: Clare Rawlinson and Eric George Head of ABC Audio on Demand: Jessica Radburn Theme: Martin Peralta Artwork: Gabriel Virata-Alves Sound engineering: Brendan O'Neill

Alecia and Leigh sail into the muddy waters of naval history, exploring the key role Indigenous explorer Bungaree played in Matthew Flinders circumnavigation of Australia. Oh, and Flinders's undying love for his cat, Trim.

Matthew Flinders (1774-1814) is best known as the first white guy to circumnavigate (and name!) Australia. But could he perhaps also have been circumnavigating the towering physique of ship surgeon George Bass? Alecia and Leigh do a literal reading of a seemingly steamy letter, written by Flinders to Bass in 1800, and a (potentially) queer reading of the relationship between these chaps with maps. By the end of this two-parter, you won't look at these men the same way. Sources: The Life of Matthew Flinders by Miriam Estensen (2002) Matthew Flinders: The Man Behind the Map by Gillian Dooley (2022) The Life of Captain Matthew Flinders by Ernest Scott (2023) My Own Destroyer: A Biography of Matthew Flinders, Explorer and Navigator by Sidney John Baker (1962) Matthew Flinders, Maritime Explorer of Australia by Kenneth Morgan (2016) Between Sentiment and Sea: The Meaning of Friendship in the Letters of Matthew Flinders by Alecia Simmonds in The Great Circle 38.2 (2016) Friendship, Imperial Violence and the Law of Nations: The Case of Late-Eighteenth Century British Oceania by Alecia Simmonds in The Journal of Imperial and Commonwealth History 42.4 (2014) Hosted by Alecia Simmonds and Leigh Boucher Supervising Producer: Hannah Reich Development Producer: Beverley Wang Executive Producers: Clare Rawlinson and Eric George Head of ABC Audio on Demand: Jessica Radburn Theme: Martin Peralta Artwork: Gabriel Virata-Alves

Alecia Simmonds and Leigh Boucher are historians, which means they are uniquely qualified to gossip about the dead. They're asking big, nosy questions about the lives of the people who shaped or misshaped Australia, like … Who really chopped off Chopper's ears? Why did they name a swimming pool after the Prime Minister who drowned? And, did our very own Dame Nellie Melba have a mean streak? While each person's history is unique, the one thing they have in common is that they are dead, so conveniently, they can't sue. Episodes dropping weekly from Tuesday, 30 June on ABC listen or wherever you get your podcasts. Hosted by Alecia Simmonds and Leigh Boucher Supervising Producer: Hannah Reich Development Producer: Beverley Wang Executive Producers: Clare Rawlinson and Eric George Head of ABC Audio on Demand: Jessica Radburn