<p>40 years ago, NASA experienced one of its most devastating disasters.</p><p>The Challenger space shuttle disintegrated just 73 seconds after launch, killing all seven crew members.</p><p>How had this happened? And did the culture of NASA have anything to do with it?</p><p>In this episode, we dig into a concept called 'normalisation of deviance', which has been touted as an explanation for this incident, as well as the Costa Concordia cruise ship disaster and a clinical drug trial that left six people in intensive care.</p><p>So what is 'normalisation of deviance'? How does it happen? And given its potential for harm, is there anything we can do to prevent it?</p><p>If you enjoyed this episode, check out the latest season of Science Friction, <a href="https://www.abc.net.au/listen/programs/sciencefriction/challenger-legacy-episode-one-launch-fever/106220244">The Challenger Disaster</a> (which is also produced by our senior producer James Bullen!)</p><p>Guests:</p><p>Dr Nejc SedlarLecturer, University of Aberdeen</p><p>Professor Sidney DekkerProfessor, Griffith University</p><p>Credits:</p><ul><li>Presenter: Sana Qadar</li><li>Senior producer: James Bullen</li><li>Additional reporting/production: Fiona Pepper</li><li>Producer: Rose Kerr</li><li>Sound engineer: Roi Huberman</li></ul><p>You can catch up on more episodes of the All in the Mind podcast with journalist and presenter Sana Qadar, exploring the psychology of topics like stress, memory, communication and relationships on ABC Listen or wherever you get your podcasts.</p><p>More information:</p><p><a href="https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022437522001827">A qualitative systematic review on the application of the normalization of deviance phenomenon within high-risk industries</a>.</p><p><a href="https://sidneydekker.com/books">Sidney Dekker — Drift into Failure.</a></p><p><a href="https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2026-01-28/space-shuttle-challenger-disaster-nasa-explosion-video-engineers/106162902">Challenger: the disaster five people saw coming.</a></p><p><a href="https://www.abc.net.au/listen/programs/sciencefriction/the-challenger-legacy/106262264">The Challenger Legacy — Science Friction.</a></p><p><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKwdG0e6hiQ">Has NASA learned anything from the Challenger disaster?</a></p><p><a href="https://www.abc.net.au/listen/programs/allinthemind/when-to-trust-gut-instinct-when-to-ignore-intuition/103374880">When to trust your gut instinct, and when to ignore it</a></p><p><a href="https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28078974/">A deviation from standard design? Clinical trials, research ethics committees, and the regulatory co-construction of organizational deviance</a></p>