The Holistic Counselor

Why can two people have the same amount of money and feel completely different about it? Why does checking a bank account make some people anxious, while others avoid thinking about money altogether? And how much of our relationship with money began long before we ever earned our first paycheck? Money is rarely just about numbers. Our financial behaviors can become connected to safety, identity, control, shame, scarcity, relationships, childhood experiences, culture, faith, and the stories we have learned about what money means. In Episode 129 of The Holistic Counselor Podcast, Diana S. Rice, LMHC, CIMHP sits down with Oliver Schnusenberg, Ph.D., MSc, CFT™, CFP®, BFA™, finance professor, behavioral finance researcher, Certified Financial Therapist™, life coach, and current clinical mental health counseling graduate student, for a fascinating conversation at the intersection of money, psychology, neuroscience, behavioral finance, relationships, and mental health. This is not an episode about picking stocks or creating the perfect budget. It is a conversation about why we do what we do with money. Oliver explains why traditional finance cannot fully account for human behavior, how behavioral finance began challenging the assumption that people always make rational financial decisions, and why understanding the psychology behind our financial choices may be just as important as understanding the numbers. Together, Diana and Oliver explore how childhood financial experiences can shape adult money beliefs, why financial scarcity can continue to feel threatening even when circumstances change, how couples can experience money completely differently, and what it might look like to become more intentional rather than simply reacting to fear, shame, advertising, or old financial patterns. In This Episode, We Talk About: What financial therapy is and how it brings together financial, psychological, behavioral, emotional, cognitive, and relational perspectives Why Oliver moved from finance and behavioral finance into psychology, neuroscience, financial therapy, and clinical mental health counseling The difference between understanding what people do with money and understanding why they do it How confirmation bias can influence financial decisions How loss aversion influences the way we experience gains and losses How childhood experiences, financial hardship, culture, family roles, and unspoken rules about money can shape our adult financial behavior Why a child does not have to personally lose a home or experience bankruptcy to associate money with fear How hearing parents argue about bills, experiencing scarcity, or watching a caregiver struggle financially may influence later beliefs about money and safety The connection between money, safety, shame, control, avoidance, spending, and relationships Why couples can have completely different emotional reactions to the exact same financial decision Why someone who grew up with scarcity may continue to feel financially unsafe even after their circumstances improve The ways financial stress may show up through fight, flight, freeze, avoidance, hyper-control, or emotional reactivity What Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) teaches about thoughts, emotions, psychological flexibility, and values Why fighting every uncomfortable thought may not be the most helpful strategy How ACT "defusion" can help create distance from statements such as "I am bad with money" The difference between saying "I am bad with money" and "I notice that I am having the thought that I am bad with money" Relational Frame Theory and the mental associations we build between words, experiences, emotions, and meaning Why the word money might unconsciously connect to ideas such as danger, freedom, shame, power, deprivation, security, generosity, or "not enough" Financial avoidance and why some people would rather ignore bills or avoid opening their banking app Consumer psychology, subscriptions, small recurring payments, and the temptation to think "it's only a few dollars a month" Social media, instant gratification, hustle culture, and the challenges younger generations face while living in an attention economy Why intentionality matters in both mental health and financial health How identifying your values can help guide financial decisions Why your spending may reveal something about what you value—or what you are trying to feel, avoid, prove, or protect How IFS-informed curiosity can help us ask what a spending, saving, controlling, or avoiding "part" may be trying to accomplish Why financial behavior does not have to be approached with shame Practical questions you can begin asking yourself about your own money story Diana Gets Financial Therapy in Real Time One of my favorite parts of this conversation happened when Oliver turned the questions back on me. He began with a simple word association: Money. My immediate response? Paper. That opened an unexpected conversation about learning to see money as a tool rather than something that determines safety, worth, identity, or success. I shared how my own childhood experiences shaped my relationship with money—watching my mother work multiple jobs, experiencing financial scarcity, and eventually realizing that somewhere along the way, my younger brain had connected money with not feeling safe. Oliver then walked me through a values-based exercise. I described the person I most want to be as: Generous. Kind. Loving. A teacher. A philanthropist. Eventually, those words became: "Helper of others." Then we explored how I want to relate to the people around me: Giving. Curious. Peaceful. Respectful. Encouraging. The word that emerged was: "Future." Oliver put the two together: "Helper of others' futures." Finally, he asked me to connect that value with a small act of self-compassion. My answer was simple: Take a deep breath. So when I am facing a decision—financial or otherwise—the practice becomes: Breathe. Remember "helper of others' futures." Then ask whether this decision moves me toward the person I want to become. That moment captures one of the biggest ideas in this entire episode: Our healthiest financial decisions may begin not only with asking, "Can I afford this?" but also, "Is this consistent with what matters to me and the person I want to become?" Questions to Ask Yourself About Your Relationship With Money Oliver offers a simple place to begin: What did I hear about money while I was growing up? How did my parents or caregivers talk about money? What happened emotionally when bills, debt, spending, or income were discussed? What financial experiences shaped me when I was young? What happened when I earned my first money? What do I believe about wealthy people? What do I believe about people who struggle financially? What does having money mean to me? What does losing money mean to me? What does spending money give me emotionally? What am I afraid might happen if I do not have enough? Where am I spending my money now—and what might that reveal about my values? Am I making financial choices intentionally, or am I reacting automatically? And perhaps the biggest question: Who do I want to become? Because without intentionally answering that question, it is easy to allow culture, advertising, fear, comparison, social media, family expectations, or old survival strategies to answer it for us. Faith & Money At the beginning of this conversation, I also challenge one of the most frequently repeated misquotations about money and Scripture. The Bible does not say that money itself is the root of all evil. 1 Timothy 6:10 warns about the love of money. That opens a much more meaningful question: When does money move from being a useful tool to something we expect to provide our identity, worth, security, status, or ultimate sense of control? That is a question worth slowing down long enough to consider. About Dr. Oliver Schnusenberg Oliver Schnusenberg, Ph.D., MSc, CFT™, CFP®, BFA™, is the Earle C. Traynham Professor of Finance at the University of North Florida, where he teaches finance and financial planning. His academic work includes behavioral finance, financial planning, psychology, neuroscience, and the psychological processes underlying financial behavior. Oliver earned his Ph.D. in Finance and later completed an MSc in Psychology and Neuroscience in Mental Health from King's College London. He is currently completing graduate training in Clinical Mental Health Counseling at the University of Florida. He is a Certified Financial Therapist™, Certified Financial Planner™, Behavioral Financial Advisor™, certified life coach, and founder of Equilibria Evolution, where his work focuses on intentional, values-based financial and personal decision-making. Important clarification: At the time of this recording, Oliver is not a licensed mental health counselor. He discusses his work in financial therapy and coaching while completing his clinical mental health counseling education. Connect With Dr. Oliver Schnusenberg Equilibria Evolution: https://www.equilibriaevolution.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/oschnuse Instagram: @oliverschnusenberg YouTube: @oschnuse Oliver's Podcast: Less Hustle, More Intention Available on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/less-hustle-more-intention/id1824876017 Resources Mentioned in This Episode Financial Therapy Association Learn more about the field of financial therapy, professional education, research, and financial therapy resources through the Financial Therapy Association. Think2Perform Values Exercise Oliver discusses using the Think2Perform Values Cards Exercise to help people identify their core values and examine whether their behaviors and decisions align with what matters most to them. Search: Think2Perform Values Exercise Setting Boundaries That Stick Juliane Taylor Shore, LMFT Full title: Setting Boundaries That Stick: How Neurobiology Can Help You Rewire Your Brain to Feel Safe, Connected, and Empowered Oliver referenced this book while demonstrating the values/self-compassion exercise during the episode. The Anxious Generation Jonathan Haidt A discussion of childhood, adolescence, smartphones, social media, and mental health that came up during our conversation about younger generations, attention, autonomy, and intentional living. Man's Search for Meaning Viktor E. Frankl Diana and Oliver discuss Viktor Frankl's work while exploring the importance of creating space between what happens to us and how we choose to respond. Making ACT Happen Gijs Jansen, PsyD Oliver references Gijs Jansen while discussing Acceptance and Commitment Therapy and Relational Frame Theory. Full title: Making ACT Happen: How to Use Acceptance and Commitment Therapy in Clinical Practice Profit First Mike Michalowicz Diana mentions how the Profit First system helped her conceptualize money and business finances in a way that finally made sense to her. Gabe Bult Diana references personal-finance and minimalism creator Gabe Bult during the discussion of consumer culture, recurring payments, spending, and younger generations. Key Terms From This Episode Financial anxiety • money anxiety • financial therapy • financial stress • money mindset • childhood money beliefs • scarcity mindset • financial trauma • money story • behavioral finance • financial psychology • money avoidance • emotional spending • money shame • couples and money • money and relationships • nervous system and money • fight flight freeze • financial wellness • confirmation bias • loss aversion • Acceptance and Commitment Therapy • ACT therapy • psychological flexibility • cognitive defusion • Relational Frame Theory • RFT • Internal Family Systems • IFS • values-based living • values-based spending • intentional living • personal finance psychology • money and mental health • childhood scarcity • financial behavior Search Questions Answered in This Episode Why do I feel anxious about money? What is financial therapy? Can childhood experiences affect the way I spend and save money? What is a scarcity mindset? Why am I afraid to spend money even when I can afford something? Why do I avoid checking my bank account? Why do couples fight about money? How does childhood poverty affect adults? Can money trigger fight, flight, or freeze responses? How do I change unhealthy money beliefs? How can ACT help with money anxiety? How can I stop emotional or impulsive spending? How do my values affect my financial decisions? How do I develop a healthier relationship with money? A Final Thought Oliver leaves us with a powerful idea: Money can function like an emotionally honest mirror. It can reflect our fears, our history, our hopes, what we learned to survive, and what we believe will finally make us feel safe. The goal is not to shame what we see in that mirror. The invitation is to become curious enough to understand it—and intentional enough to decide what we want to do next. Educational Disclaimer: This podcast is provided for educational and informational purposes only and is not psychotherapy, mental health treatment, financial planning, investment advice, tax advice, legal advice, or a substitute for services from an appropriately licensed or qualified professional. Individual circumstances vary. Please consult qualified mental health, financial, legal, tax, or medical professionals when appropriate. At the time of this recording, Dr. Oliver Schnusenberg identifies his work as financial therapy and ACT-informed coaching and is completing graduate education

What happens when a DNA test changes the story you believed about who you are? In this deeply personal and powerful episode of The Holistic Counselor Podcast, host Diana S. Rice, LMHC, CIMHP, sits down with Mecca Syrkett—mental health advocate, MPE mentor, certified grief recovery coach, and founder of Aya Grief Education & Coaching—for an honest conversation about NPE discoveries, MPE discoveries, misattributed parentage experiences, unexpected DNA results, genetic bewilderment, identity, grief, family secrets, belonging, heritage, and healing. Mecca shares her own story of discovering through DNA testing that the father who raised her was not her biological father, and how that revelation reshaped her understanding of family, ancestry, grief, and identity. Diana also reflects on her own recent MPE discovery and the emotional "glitch" that can happen when even a simple question like "Where are you from?" no longer feels simple. Together, Diana and Mecca explore why an NPE or MPE discovery is not "just information," but can feel like a life-altering grief experience. They discuss the shock of seeing unfamiliar close relatives in DNA results, the longing for genetic mirroring, the pain of unanswered questions, the role of family secrets, the grief of lost heritage, and why so many people feel alone after a DNA surprise. This conversation also highlights the importance of MPE-informed support, active listening, online community, grief education, nervous system awareness, faith, and learning how to build a new narrative when the old story no longer fits. If you or someone you love has discovered unexpected parentage through Ancestry, 23andMe, or another DNA test, this episode offers language, validation, compassion, and hope. TOPICS DISCUSSED: NPE and MPE discoveries Misattributed parentage experiences Unexpected DNA results and family secrets Genetic bewilderment and identity confusion DNA testing through Ancestry and 23andMe Grief after learning a parent is not your biological parent Late discovery adoptee experiences Disenfranchised grief and complex grief The emotional impact of "Where are you from?" Genetic mirroring and seeing yourself in biological relatives How loved ones can respond with compassion Why active listening matters after a DNA surprise Finding community and support after an NPE/MPE discovery Faith, identity, belonging, and healing when your story changes CONNECT WITH MECCA SYRKETT: Aya Grief Education & Coaching Website: https://www.ayagrief.com Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61586551186971 Email: [email protected] NPE/MPE SUPPORT GROUPS & COMMUNITY RESOURCES: NPE Only: After the Discovery https://www.facebook.com/groups/NPEOnlyAftertheDiscovery This NPE Life https://www.facebook.com/groups/thisnpelife This MPE Life https://www.facebook.com/groups/thismpelife NPE Network https://www.npenetwork.org Right to Know https://righttoknow.us MPE Counseling / Professional Directory https://www.mpecounseling.org Watershed DNA Resource List https://www.watersheddna.com/resources DNA Surprises Resource List https://dnasurprises.com/dna-surprise-resources/ DNAngels https://www.dnangels.org NPE STORIES & PODCAST RESOURCES: NPE Stories with Lily Wood https://npestories.com DNA Surprises Podcast https://dnasurprises.com Watershed DNA / DNA Clarity and Support https://www.watersheddna.com BOOKS & RECOMMENDED READING: NPE* A Story Guide for Unexpected DNA Discoveries by Leeanne R. Hay https://www.leeannerhay.com Inheritance: A Memoir of Genealogy, Paternity, and Love by Dani Shapiro https://danishapiro.com/books/inheritance/ The Lost Family: How DNA Testing Is Upending Who We Are by Libby Copeland https://libbycopeland.com/the-lost-family-2/ DNA Guide for Adoptees by Brianne Kirkpatrick https://www.watersheddna.com/books More DNA discovery books and resources https://www.watersheddna.com/resources CRISIS & SUPPORT RESOURCES: If this conversation brings up overwhelming grief, trauma, sexual violence, abuse, or thoughts of self-harm, please reach out for support now. 988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline Call or text 988 https://988lifeline.org RAINN National Sexual Assault Hotline https://rainn.org National Domestic Violence Hotline https://www.thehotline.org CONNECT WITH DIANA S. RICE: The Holistic Counselor Podcast https://www.throughthevalleytherapy.com Through the Valley Therapy https://www.throughthevalleytherapy.com Transformed Mind Consulting & Coaching https://www.transformedmindcc.com Listen to the podcast: https://pod.link/1732149496 Disclaimer: This podcast is for educational and informational purposes only and does not replace therapy, medical care, crisis care, or professional mental health treatment. If you are in immediate danger or experiencing a medical or mental health emergency, call 911 or go to your nearest emergency room.

What happens when a DNA test changes the story you have believed about yourself your entire life? In this deeply personal and professionally rich episode of The Holistic Counselor Podcast, Diana S. Rice, LMHC, CIMHP, sits down with Dr. Josephine Rabb, PsyD, LMFT, LPC, a therapist, researcher, professor, speaker, and pioneer in the field of Parental Identity Discovery™. Together, Diana and Dr. Rabb explore the emotional, relational, cultural, and clinical impact of unexpected DNA discoveries, including NPE, MPE, misattributed parentage, donor conception, late-discovery adoption, family secrets, genetic mirroring, identity trauma, ambiguous loss, and genetic bewilderment. Diana also shares part of her own recent discovery that, at 54 years old, she learned she is an NPE/MPE. This conversation is for anyone who has received unexpected DNA results, loves someone walking through this kind of discovery, or works clinically with people navigating identity, grief, trauma, family rupture, and belonging. In this episode, we talk about: What NPE and MPE mean, and why "misattributed parentage experience" is often a more inclusive term How a DNA test can disrupt identity, family history, culture, ethnicity, and belonging Why "the person who raised you is still your parent" can feel dismissive, even when it is said with good intentions Genetic bewilderment and the grief of not knowing where you come from Genetic mirroring and the relief of seeing yourself in biological relatives The impact of family secrets, rejection, silence, and delayed truth Why newly discovered relatives may need time to process the shock How boundaries matter on all sides of an unexpected DNA discovery Dr. Rabb's Parental Identity Discovery™ framework Why clinicians need to understand identity, grief, trauma, family systems, adoption research, and ambiguous loss How EMDR, CBT, attachment work, IFS-informed language, narrative work, and family therapy may support healing Why connection, community, and support groups can be essential after an NPE/MPE discovery Exact quotes from Dr. Rabb: "Dad is still your dad, the guy who raised you is still your dad. And that is true, in a lot of ways. And yet, it's one of the more dismissive comments made." "You have genetic mirroring at that moment. Genetic mirroring, and that's where that sigh of relief comes from, is I see where I belong now." Exact quotes from Diana: "Who are you if the story you've believed about yourself your entire life suddenly changes." "Instead of reacting in emotion, I want to respond in wisdom." Resources mentioned in this episode: Dr. Josephine Rabb's website https://www.jkrabb.com/ Parental Identity Discovery™ / Dr. Rabb's areas of expertise https://www.jkrabb.com/areas-of-expertise Dr. Rabb's professional development and Parental Identity Discovery™ training information https://www.jkrabb.com/professional-development Dr. Rabb's resources page https://www.jkrabb.com/resources-1 Sex, Lies & The Truth podcast https://www.sexliesandthetruth.com/ NPE Guide https://www.npeguide.com/ NPE Guide: Guide page https://www.npeguide.com/guide NPE Network https://www.npenetwork.org/ Netflix documentary: Our Father https://www.netflix.com/title/81227735 CDC: Adverse Childhood Experiences / ACEs https://www.cdc.gov/aces/about/index.html EMDR International Association / EMDRIA https://www.emdria.org/ Internal Family Systems Institute https://ifs-institute.com/ Closing reflection: An unexpected DNA discovery can shake more than a family tree. It can shake a person's sense of identity, belonging, culture, story, and safety. But as this episode reminds us, healing does not have to happen in isolation. There is language for this. There are clinicians learning how to help. There are support groups, resources, and people who understand. And for those walking through this tender and disorienting road: you are not strange, you are not alone, and your story still matters. Please remember: trust in the Lord, guard your heart, and renew your mind.

What does it really mean to heal when faith, trauma, shame, and identity are all tangled together? In Episode 126 of The Holistic Counselor Podcast, Diana S. Rice, LMHC, CIMHP, QS, welcomes Vanessa Bentley, LPC-MHSP, licensed professional counselor, author, speaker, and host of The Work of Being Human podcast, for a deeply honest conversation about Christian therapy, trauma healing, spiritual abuse, church hurt, shame, faith deconstruction, identity in Christ, emotional healing, and what it means to face reality without denial, deception, or distortion. Vanessa's story begins in the arts. Before becoming a psychotherapist, she earned her B.F.A. in Musical Theater from NYU's Tisch School of the Arts and spent ten years working in theater, film, television, and print modeling. Her work took her from the professional stages of Manhattan to the historic stages of Europe, including a European tour of West Side Story in the role of Maria. But this conversation goes far beyond credentials. Diana and Vanessa talk about what happens when faith is inherited as rules instead of formed as identity, when religion becomes performance instead of relationship, and when trauma, shame, and suffering are met with spiritual bypassing instead of truth, compassion, and healing. This episode is for anyone who has ever wondered: What is true? Who am I really? Where is God in my suffering? Why do I feel stuck even after therapy, prayer, or trying to "do all the right things"? Can Christian faith and mental health counseling work together in an ethical, grounded, and healing way? How do I stop performing and begin becoming honest, human, and whole? Vanessa shares how her own life, failures, spiritual disillusionment, therapy, and return to Christ shaped her work as a therapist. Together, Diana and Vanessa discuss high-control religion, spiritual abuse, shame, guilt, fear, agnosticism, atheism, confession, redemption, psychology, theology, relationship repair, and why healing must be built on truth. At the heart of this conversation is a powerful idea: mental health is not just symptom management. It is learning how to live in reality, tell the truth, and become whole. Why This Conversation Matters Many people are searching for healing, but they are afraid. Afraid of being judged. Afraid therapy will pull them away from God. Afraid their church will tell them to just pray harder. Afraid their questions mean they are losing faith. Afraid their trauma means something is wrong with them. Afraid to tell the truth because shame has convinced them they are beyond repair. This episode creates space for a different kind of conversation. Diana and Vanessa do not reduce healing to a diagnosis, a coping skill, a church answer, or a self-help phrase. Instead, they explore the deeper work of becoming honest before God, self, and others. This conversation honors both clinical wisdom and Christian faith. It invites listeners to consider that mental health is not only about feeling better, but about learning how to live in truth, reality, humility, love, and grace. In This Episode, Diana and Vanessa Discuss Vanessa's journey from musical theater, film, television, and modeling into psychotherapy How the performing arts shaped Vanessa's understanding of story, identity, and humanity Why many therapists are shaped by their own pain before they ever enter the classroom The difference between inherited faith and investigated faith What happens when religion gives rules but not identity Spiritual abuse, church hurt, and high-control faith environments Why questions can become part of spiritual maturity The difference between belief and identity in Christ How shame, guilt, and fear can become normalized Why healing requires both truth and compassion The danger of confusing trauma with "God's will" Why Christian therapy must be honest about suffering, sin, grace, and redemption How therapy can create a safe place for confession, accountability, and repair Jesus as Logos: truth, reality, reason, and the Word made flesh Why mental health and theology intersect for people of faith How denial, deception, and distortion keep people stuck Why anxiety, depression, and emotional pain can be signals that something deeper needs attention What it means to face reality and embrace humanity Powerful Quotes from Diana S. Rice "I love when someone can hold creativity, clinical wisdom, faith, suffering, beauty, and humanity in the same room." — Diana S. Rice, LMHC, CIMHP, QS "But underneath all that, I think many of us are really asking, what is true? Who am I really? Where is God in my suffering? And how do I stop performing long enough to become honest, human, and whole?" — Diana S. Rice, LMHC, CIMHP, QS "All the signals are signaling out. It's what you're gonna do with it." — Diana S. Rice, LMHC, CIMHP, QS Powerful Quotes from Vanessa Bentley "Because therapists are not made in the classroom, they're made in the fire." — Vanessa Bentley, LPC-MHSP "When you have belief, but not identity, you will always, always be scratching at the surface of what's possible in your relationship with God." — Vanessa Bentley, LPC-MHSP "Mental health is your ability to be in reality without denial, deception, or distortion, and thrive in that place." — Vanessa Bentley, LPC-MHSP Key Takeaways 1. Healing must be built on truth. Vanessa defines mental health as the ability to live in reality without denial, deception, or distortion. For people of faith, this means healing is not about pretending, performing, or avoiding pain. It is about learning to tell the truth with humility, compassion, and courage. 2. Rules are not the same as identity. Faith that is only built on rules can create fear, shame, and performance. Diana and Vanessa explore how true healing requires a deeper foundation: knowing who you are in relationship with God. 3. Questions are not always rebellion. For many people, questioning inherited faith is not about rejecting God. It may be part of moving from a borrowed belief system into a more honest, tested, and mature faith. 4. Spiritual bypassing can keep people stuck. Saying "just pray harder" or "Jesus fixes everything" may sound spiritual, but it can also avoid the real work of grief, trauma, confession, nervous system healing, relational repair, and emotional honesty. 5. Shame heals in truth and relationship. Shame grows in hiding. Healing often begins when we can bring our real story into the light with God, safe people, and sometimes a trained therapist who can help us face reality without condemnation. 6. Christian therapy can be clinically grounded and spiritually honest. This episode does not flatten therapy into self-help or faith into clichés. It invites a deeper integration of theology, psychology, biology, story, and embodied healing. Listener Questions This Episode Helps Answer Can Christian therapy help with trauma? Yes. Christian therapy can help people process trauma, shame, grief, anxiety, and relationship wounds while honoring faith, Scripture, and the whole person. The best care is ethical, clinically grounded, and never uses faith to shame or silence a person's pain. What is spiritual abuse? Spiritual abuse can happen when faith, Scripture, authority, or religious systems are used to control, shame, manipulate, silence questions, or disconnect people from God, self, or safe community. What is the difference between church hurt and losing faith? Church hurt can create confusion, grief, anger, and distrust. But questioning harmful systems does not automatically mean someone has lost faith. Sometimes it means they are trying to separate God from the wounds caused by people or institutions. Why do I feel shame even when I believe in God? Many people intellectually believe they are loved by God but still carry emotional wounds, trauma responses, fear, or a performance-based identity. Healing often involves moving from belief alone into embodied identity, truth, safety, and grace. Can therapy and Christian faith work together? Yes, when done with wisdom and ethical care. Therapy can help people face reality, understand their story, process pain, take responsibility, repair relationships, and live more honestly before God and others. Books and Resources Mentioned Vanessa Bentley's Website https://www.vanessabentley.co The Work of Being Human Podcast with Vanessa Bentley Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-work-of-being-human/id1555914519 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4OSzahM97510fClqYs3ZYt YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheVanessaBentley Vanessa on Instagram @vanessathetherapist: https://www.instagram.com/vanessathetherapist/ @theworkofbeinghuman: https://www.instagram.com/theworkofbeinghuman/ The Toolbox: The Tools We Need to Build Relationships and Repair Them When They Break by Vanessa Londino Vanessa's Book Page: https://www.vanessabentley.co/author Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Toolbox-Tools-Build-Relationships-Repair/dp/1736381318 Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis HarperCollins: https://www.harpercollins.com/products/mere-christianity-c-s-lewis Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Mere-Christianity-C-S-Lewis/dp/0060652926 The Road Less Traveled by M. Scott Peck Simon & Schuster: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/The-Road-Less-Traveled-Timeless-Edition/M-Scott-Peck/9780743243155 Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Road-Less-Traveled-Psychology-Traditional/dp/0671250671 Stages of Faith: The Psychology of Human Development and the Quest for Meaning by James W. Fowler HarperCollins: https://www.harpercollins.com/products/stages-of-faith-james-w-fowler Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Stages-Faith-Psychology-Development-Meaning/dp/0060628669 What a Friend We Have in Jesus Hymnary: https://hymnary.org/text/what_a_friend_we_have_in_jesus_all_our_s Books Vanessa Mentioned Reading During Her Search for Truth These were discussed as part of Vanessa's personal search, questioning, and faith journey. They are listed for context, not as blanket recommendations. God Is Not Great by Christopher Hitchens https://www.amazon.com/God-Not-Great-Religion-Everything/dp/0446697966 The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins https://www.amazon.com/God-Delusion-Richard-Dawkins/dp/0618918248 The End of Faith by Sam Harris https://www.amazon.com/End-Faith-Religion-Terror-Future/dp/0393327655 Scripture References Reflected in the Conversation John 1:1–14 — Jesus as the Word, Logos, truth, and reality made flesh Romans 8:28 — God working all things together for good Exodus 3:14 — "I AM WHO I AM" 1 John 4:8 — God is love James 5:16 — Confession, prayer, and healing Matthew 7:7–8 — Ask, seek, knock Ecclesiastes — Wisdom, searching, suffering, meaning, and the limits of life apart from God About Vanessa Bentley, LPC-MHSP Vanessa Bentley is a licensed professional counselor, LPC-MHSP, author, speaker, podcast host, and therapist serving Nashville and the broader Middle Tennessee community. Before becoming a psychotherapist, Vanessa earned her B.F.A. in Musical Theater from the Tisch School of the Arts at New York University and spent ten years working in theater, film, television, and print modeling. Her work as an actress took her from the professional stages of Manhattan to the historic stages of Europe, including a European tour of West Side Story in the role of Maria. After transitioning into counseling, Vanessa earned her M.A. in Counseling from Trevecca Nazarene University in Nashville. She began her clinical work in a community nonprofit, serving underprivileged clients throughout Middle Tennessee. Her work later expanded into teaching and lecturing counseling students, divinity students, and clergy on the intersection of psychology and theology. Vanessa is the author of The Toolbox: The Tools We Need to Build Relationships and Repair Them When They Break and the host of The Work of Being Human podcast. Her message is clear and deeply needed: mental health requires facing reality and embracing our humanity. Connect with Vanessa Website: https://www.vanessabentley.co Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-work-of-being-human/id1555914519 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheVanessaBentley Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/vanessathetherapist/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/theworkofbeinghuman/ Book: https://www.vanessabentley.co/author About The Holistic Counselor Podcast The Holistic Counselor Podcast is where faith, psychology, and whole-person wellness meet. Hosted by Diana S. Rice, LMHC, CIMHP, QS, founder of Through the Valley Therapy and Transformed Mind Consulting & Coaching, this podcast offers grounded and compassionate conversations for anyone seeking emotional healing, mental clarity, spiritual growth, and healthier relationships. Some conversations reflect Diana's Christian perspective and theology. Others center on clinical insight, cultural context, holistic wellness, or lived experience. All episodes share the same intention: reducing stigma, elevating mental-health literacy, honoring diverse stories, and supporting whole-person transformation. Connect with Diana Through the Valley Therapy: https://www.throughthevalleytherapy.com The Holistic Counselor Podcast: https://www.throughthevalleytherapy.com/holistic-counselor-podcast Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-holistic-counselor/id1732149496 Transformed Mind Consulting & Coaching: https://www.transformedmindcc.com Content Note This episode includes honest discussion of spiritual abuse, shame, trauma, sexual sin, abortion, faith deconstruction, and emotional suffering. Please listen with care and seek support from a licensed mental health professional, pastor, spiritual director, or trusted support person if needed. Disclaimer This podcast is for educational and informational purposes only and is not a substitute for mental health counseling, medical care, crisis support, legal advice, or spiritual direction. If you are experiencing a mental health emergency, call or text 988 in the United States or go to your nearest emergency room. If you are seeking therapy, please consult a licensed mental health professional in your state or region. Thank you for listening. Please subscribe, leave a review, and share this episode with someone who may be wrestling with faith, trauma, identity, shame, church hurt, spiritual abuse, or the work of becoming more honest, human, and whole. And remember: trust in the Lord, guard your heart, and renew your mind.

Divorce recovery is about more than ending a marriage. It is about healing grief, rebuilding self-worth, restoring emotional health, processing identity loss, and learning how to move forward after one of life's most difficult transitions. In Episode 125 of The Holistic Counselor Podcast, Diana Rice, LMHC, sits down with divorce recovery specialist Shirley Barthelemy, MS, LMHC, LPC, CAP, to discuss emotional healing after divorce, grief, faith, attachment wounds, people-pleasing patterns, Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT), and practical tools for rebuilding confidence and finding hope again. Drawing from both her professional expertise and personal experience, Shirley shares how her own journey through divorce inspired her to create the HER Divorce Recovery Coaching Program, a structured framework designed to help women heal emotionally, renew their minds, strengthen their faith, and rediscover who they are beyond the pain of relationship loss. Together, Diana and Shirley explore the hidden mental health effects of divorce, the stigma many women experience within faith communities, the importance of emotional honesty, healthy boundaries, self-care, nervous system awareness, and why healing requires more than simply "moving on." Whether you're currently navigating separation, healing from a divorce that happened years ago, supporting someone you love, or simply interested in emotional wellness, resilience, personal growth, and the intersection of faith and mental health, this conversation offers practical wisdom, encouragement, and hope for the journey ahead. In This Episode • How to heal after divorce • The emotional stages of grief after divorce • Identity loss and rebuilding self-worth • Depression, anxiety, shame, and emotional overwhelm • Faith, forgiveness, and healing after divorce • Attachment styles and people-pleasing patterns • Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) and renewing the mind • Healthy coping skills during major life transitions • Emotional regulation and nervous system awareness • The importance of community, support, and accountability • Red flags that unresolved relationship wounds may still be affecting current relationships • Why healing is a journey—not a quick fix • How to move from surviving to thriving Memorable Quotes "You started understanding how to respond in wisdom instead of reacting in emotion." — Diana Rice, LMHC "The relationship ended, but that doesn't define who you are. It's just part of your story, not your entire story." — Shirley Barthelemy, MS, LMHC, LPC, CAP Who This Episode Is For This episode is for you if: You're currently going through a separation or divorce You're struggling with grief, shame, anger, loneliness, or uncertainty You're wondering how to rebuild your confidence and identity You're navigating divorce within a faith community You're carrying emotional wounds from a past relationship You're supporting a friend or loved one through divorce You're looking for practical tools to help you heal and move forward You're interested in mental health, faith, personal growth, and emotional wellness About Our Guest Shirley Barthelemy, MS, LMHC, LPC, CAP is a Licensed Mental Health Counselor, Licensed Professional Counselor, Certified Addiction Professional, Certified Life Coach, and Founder of Holistic Lady Counseling Services. For more than 10 years, she has served individuals, couples, and families within the mental health and substance use field. Today, she specializes in Divorce Recovery Coaching, helping women navigate grief, emotional healing, confidence rebuilding, self-worth restoration, and personal growth after divorce. She is the creator of the HER Divorce Recovery Coaching Program, a comprehensive framework designed to help women Heal, Grow, and Thrive. Resources Mentioned Holistic Lady Counseling Services https://holisticladycounseling.com Learn More About Shirley Barthelemy https://holisticladycounseling.com/official-about-page/ DivorceCare Divorce Recovery Support Groups https://www.divorcecare.org Through the Valley Therapy https://www.throughthevalleytherapy.com Transformed Mind Consulting & Coaching https://www.transformedmindcc.com The Holistic Counselor Podcast https://pod.link/1732149496 Connect with Diana Rice Diana S. Rice, LMHC, CIMHP Founder, Through the Valley Therapy Founder, Transformed Mind Consulting & Coaching Host, The Holistic Counselor Podcast Enjoyed This Episode? If this conversation encouraged you, challenged you, or reminded you that healing is possible, please subscribe, follow, leave a review, and share this episode with someone who may be struggling with grief, heartbreak, divorce, identity loss, relationship trauma, or emotional healing. Your reviews help these conversations reach people who feel isolated, overwhelmed, and unsure where to turn. Together, we can remind others that they are not alone and that healing is possible. Until next time, remember: you are fearfully and wonderfully made.