The Holistic Counselor

Who are you when you are not achieving, fixing, performing, helping, or being the strong one? In Episode 131 of The Holistic Counselor Podcast, Diana S. Rice, LMHC, CIMHP, QS, sits down with Jennifer Coulter, LCSW, Marriage & Family Therapist Associate, licensed minister, speaker, and founder of Restorative Solutions, to explore identity, attachment wounds, faith, relational healing, and the stories we learn to live from. Jennifer shares how achievement became a source of affirmation in her own life—and why healing did not require her to stop achieving, but to stop asking achievement to tell her who she was. Together, Diana and Jennifer unpack how childhood experiences, family systems, church culture, shame, relationships, and unmet attachment needs can shape the "I am" statements we carry into adulthood. They explain how narrative therapy can help separate a person from a problem, role, label, or survival pattern so a different story can begin to take shape. The conversation also explores anxious and avoidant attachment, family-of-origin work, perfectionism, people-pleasing, grief, boundaries, faith deconstruction, church hurt, and spiritual wounds. Jennifer offers a simple framework for building a more rooted identity: know the truth, believe the truth, and build a life that agrees with it. IN THIS EPISODE: • Why achievement can become tied to self-worth and identity • The difference between a wound, role, behavior pattern, and identity • How attachment injuries can affect trust, self-worth, emotional regulation, and relationships • Why Jennifer asks, "What did you crave as a child?" • How narrative therapy helps people examine and reauthor dominant stories • Why changing an old identity can involve grief • The difference between inherited faith and examined faith • A practical "I am" identity inventory for self-reflection CHAPTERS: 00:00:00 — Who are you when you're not the strong one? 00:03:06 — Who is Jennifer beyond what she does? 00:05:41 — When achievement becomes identity 00:13:56 — Growing up in church and examining inherited faith 00:22:59 — Wounds, roles, survival patterns, and identity 00:27:21 — Family-of-origin work and childhood needs 00:30:53 — Narrative therapy and reauthoring the story 00:37:53 — Anxious and avoidant attachment 00:46:43 — Grieving an old identity 00:52:02 — Faith, relationships, and restoring identity 00:54:18 — Know, believe, and build 01:04:22 — The "I am" identity inventory ABOUT JENNIFER: Jennifer Coulter is a Licensed Clinical Social Worker, Marriage & Family Therapist Associate, licensed minister, speaker, and founder of Restorative Solutions in Louisville, Kentucky. Her work includes attachment and relationships, identity and purpose, trauma, faith and spirituality, anxiety, depression, grief, and life transitions. Jennifer provides psychotherapy in Kentucky. Restorative Solutions also offers Restored, a seven-week identity restoration experience, and The Living Room, a spiritual formation community. CONNECT WITH JENNIFER: www.restorativesolutions.co Instagram: @restorativesols Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/restorativesols Youtube: Restorative Solutions RESOURCES MENTIONED: Attached — Amir Levine, MD, and Rachel Heller Hold Me Tight — Dr. Sue Johnson Acts 17:11 | Isaiah 1:26 | Romans 12:2 THE HOLISTIC COUNSELOR: www.theholisticcounselor.com Educational disclaimer: This episode is for educational and informational purposes only and is not a substitute for psychotherapy, medical care, diagnosis, or individualized treatment.

How do you know whether you need therapy—and how do you find a therapist you can actually trust? Searching for mental health care can feel overwhelming, especially when you are already anxious, grieving, burned out, struggling in a relationship, carrying unresolved trauma, or simply realizing that your usual ways of coping are no longer helping. Then come the confusing credentials, therapy acronyms, insurance questions, online directories, treatment modalities, and competing definitions of "Christian counseling." In Episode 130 of The Holistic Counselor Podcast, Diana S. Rice, LMHC, CIMHP, QS, welcomes licensed clinicians Camille McDaniel, LPC, and Melissa Gendreau, LMHC, for an honest roundtable conversation about how to recognize when you may need professional support, how to find the right therapist, and what questions you are allowed to ask before trusting someone with your story. Although all three women are Christian clinicians, this conversation offers practical guidance for anyone trying to find ethical, competent, and trustworthy mental health care. IN THIS EPISODE, WE DISCUSS: • How to tell the difference between normal emotional discomfort, a difficult season, and distress that may require professional support • Why not every painful experience automatically means you have a mental health disorder • How anxiety, depression, trauma, grief, relationship problems, isolation, and daily functioning may affect the level of care you need • Why physical health, medications, hormones, sleep, and other medical factors may also need to be discussed with a qualified healthcare professional • The differences among psychiatrists, psychologists, licensed counselors, social workers, marriage and family therapists, registered or associate clinicians, coaches, pastors, and biblical counselors • Why a professional title, impressive website, or long list of credentials does not automatically mean someone is the right therapist for you • How to search for a therapist by concern, specialty, location, insurance, faith preference, treatment approach, and communication style • How insurance directories, private-pay therapy, sliding-scale fees, community mental health centers, and superbills work • Why out-of-network reimbursement is never guaranteed and should be confirmed directly with your insurance company • What CBT, DBT, EMDR, IFS, ACT, and person-centered therapy mean • The difference between being informed, trained, and formally certified in a treatment modality • Questions to ask about a therapist's experience, training, boundaries, approach, and therapeutic style • How a previous positive—or harmful—therapy experience can affect your willingness to try again • What "Christian counselor" or "Christian therapist" may mean—and why you should never assume every provider uses those terms in the same way • How to ask whether faith will be integrated ethically, clinically, and only with your informed consent • Why shared faith does not automatically establish clinical competence or a healthy therapeutic fit • How to advocate for yourself without feeling responsible for pleasing the therapist QUESTIONS TO ASK A POTENTIAL THERAPIST: Are you currently licensed to practice in my state, and where can I verify your license? How much experience do you have helping people with the concern bringing me to therapy? What treatment approaches do you use, and why might they be appropriate for my needs? Are you informed, formally trained, or certified in those approaches? What does a typical session with you look like? Is your style more structured, reflective, directive, or collaborative? How will we identify my goals and evaluate whether therapy is helping? What happens if I disagree with you or tell you that something does not feel helpful? Do you accept my insurance? If not, do you offer sliding-scale appointments or provide superbills? If faith matters to me, how do you integrate spirituality or Christianity into counseling? Will you ask for my consent before introducing prayer, Scripture, or other spiritual practices? What are your professional boundaries, confidentiality policies, and procedures for emergencies? Remember: asking questions is not disrespectful. You are hiring a professional service, and you have the right to understand the provider's qualifications, approach, fees, policies, and limitations. CHAPTERS: 00:00 Welcome: Do I need therapy? 04:47 Where do I begin when I know something is wrong? 07:59 Considering symptoms, physical health, and level of distress 10:39 Has our ability to tolerate discomfort changed? 14:32 When should someone seek clinical mental health care? 16:34 Therapy, loneliness, and the loss of community 23:11 Mental health stigma and self-diagnosis online 26:19 Diagnoses, insurance, and medical necessity 28:48 Understanding different mental health professionals 35:59 What does "sliding scale" mean? 37:47 Finding affordable therapy and asking for a consultation 38:48 What is a superbill? 40:14 Why some therapists do not accept insurance 45:01 How to begin searching for the right therapist 47:30 Supervision, training, and healthy clinical guardrails 52:22 How can you tell whether a therapist is doing good work? 57:14 What are you hoping to gain from therapy? 59:01 What if you had a bad experience with therapy? 01:01:09 Researching a therapist through the "digital waiting room" 01:03:47 Understanding therapy modalities and evidence 01:05:35 Informed, trained, or certified: What is the difference? 01:09:55 CBT, DBT, EMDR, IFS, ACT, and person-centered therapy 01:13:22 What does "Christian counseling" actually mean? 01:20:23 Questions Christians can ask before choosing a therapist 01:22:02 Connect with Camille and Melissa MEET THE GUESTS CAMILLE McDANIEL, LPC Camille McDaniel is a licensed professional counselor, educator, continuing-education trainer, consultant, author, and the founder and host of Christ in Private Practice. Her work supports thoughtful and ethical integration of Christian faith within professional counseling. Website: https://camillemcdaniel.com Christ in Private Practice: https://christinprivatepractice.com Listen to the podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/christ-in-private-practice/id1758831272 Continue the original roundtable conversation: Episode 100—Discerning Treatment Modalities Without Fear or Polarization: https://christinprivatepractice.com/ep-100-discerning-treatment-modalities-without-fear-or-polarization-clinician-roundtable/ MELISSA GENDREAU, LMHC Melissa Gendreau is a licensed mental health counselor in Iowa, clinical supervisor, consultant, Christian coach, speaker, and host of Forward Path with Melissa: Life and Marriage God's Way. Therapy, supervision, and professional consultation: https://melissagendreaupllc.com Coaching, courses, community, and podcast: https://www.melissagendreau.com Listen to Forward Path with Melissa: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/forward-path-with-melissa-life-and-marriage-gods-way/id1861305095 RESOURCES FOR FINDING CARE Open Path Psychotherapy Collective—reduced-fee therapy directory: https://openpathcollective.org SAMHSA FindTreatment.gov—mental health and substance-use treatment locator: https://findtreatment.gov Psychology Today therapist directory: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapists American Counseling Association: https://www.counseling.org Florida mental health professional license verification and complaints: https://floridasmentalhealthprofessions.gov If you live outside Florida, search for the official licensing board in the state where you will physically be located during therapy. A professional directory listing does not replace verification through the appropriate government licensing board. CHRISTIAN COUNSELING RESOURCES MENTIONED Focus on the Family counseling services and referrals: https://www.focusonthefamily.com/get-help/counseling-services-and-referrals/ American Association of Christian Counselors: https://aacc.net A Christian directory may include licensed clinicians, coaches, pastors, or other helpers with different education and regulatory requirements. Before scheduling, verify the person's exact role, active professional license, scope of practice, training, fees, and approach to integrating faith. LEARN ABOUT THE THERAPY APPROACHES MENTIONED EMDR therapy information and therapist directory—EMDR International Association: https://www.emdria.org/about-emdr-therapy/ https://www.emdria.org/find-an-emdr-therapist/ Internal Family Systems: https://ifs-institute.com Cognitive Behavioral Therapy: https://beckinstitute.org/about/understanding-cbt/ Dialectical Behavior Therapy resources: https://dialecticalbehaviortherapy.com/ Acceptance and Commitment Therapy resources: https://contextualscience.org CONNECT WITH DIANA Diana S. Rice, LMHC, CIMHP, QS Host of The Holistic Counselor Podcast Website: https://theholisticcounselor.com Listen on your favorite podcast platform: https://pod.link/1732149496 Watch and subscribe on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@theholisticcounselor Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/theholisticcounselorpodcast If this conversation helped you understand how to find the right therapist, please subscribe, leave an honest review, and share this episode with someone who may be wondering where to begin. Your support helps thoughtful mental health conversations reach people who may be searching quietly and do not yet know whom to trust. IMPORTANT DISCLAIMER This podcast is provided for general education and is not psychotherapy, medical care, diagnosis, crisis intervention, legal advice, or a substitute for an individualized evaluation by a qualified professional. Listening to this episode or contacting a host or guest does not create a therapist-client, physician-patient, coaching, supervisory, or other professional relationship. Professional titles, licensing requirements, telehealth rules, insurance benefits, reimbursement policies, and scopes of practice vary by profession, health plan, and jurisdiction. Verify a provider's license with the appropriate regulatory board and confirm coverage directly with your insurance company before receiving services. A superbill does not guarantee reimbursement. New, severe, or changing emotional or physical symptoms should be discussed with an appropriately licensed healthcare professional. Do not discontinue medication or change a treatment plan without consulting the prescribing or treating professional. If you are in the United States and experiencing a mental health or suicide crisis, call or text 988 or visit https://988lifeline.org. If there is immediate danger, call 911 or go to the nearest emergency department. For domestic violence support, contact the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-SAFE (7233), text START to 88788, or visit https://www.thehotline.org. If internet use may be monitored, use a safer device when possible. #DoINeedTherapy #HowToFindATherapist #ChristianCounseling

Why can two people have the same amount of money and feel completely different about it? Why does checking a bank account make some people anxious, while others avoid thinking about money altogether? And how much of our relationship with money began long before we ever earned our first paycheck? Money is rarely just about numbers. Our financial behaviors can become connected to safety, identity, control, shame, scarcity, relationships, childhood experiences, culture, faith, and the stories we have learned about what money means. In Episode 129 of The Holistic Counselor Podcast, Diana S. Rice, LMHC, CIMHP sits down with Oliver Schnusenberg, Ph.D., MSc, CFT™, CFP®, BFA™, finance professor, behavioral finance researcher, Certified Financial Therapist™, life coach, and current clinical mental health counseling graduate student, for a fascinating conversation at the intersection of money, psychology, neuroscience, behavioral finance, relationships, and mental health. This is not an episode about picking stocks or creating the perfect budget. It is a conversation about why we do what we do with money. Oliver explains why traditional finance cannot fully account for human behavior, how behavioral finance began challenging the assumption that people always make rational financial decisions, and why understanding the psychology behind our financial choices may be just as important as understanding the numbers. Together, Diana and Oliver explore how childhood financial experiences can shape adult money beliefs, why financial scarcity can continue to feel threatening even when circumstances change, how couples can experience money completely differently, and what it might look like to become more intentional rather than simply reacting to fear, shame, advertising, or old financial patterns. In This Episode, We Talk About: What financial therapy is and how it brings together financial, psychological, behavioral, emotional, cognitive, and relational perspectives Why Oliver moved from finance and behavioral finance into psychology, neuroscience, financial therapy, and clinical mental health counseling The difference between understanding what people do with money and understanding why they do it How confirmation bias can influence financial decisions How loss aversion influences the way we experience gains and losses How childhood experiences, financial hardship, culture, family roles, and unspoken rules about money can shape our adult financial behavior Why a child does not have to personally lose a home or experience bankruptcy to associate money with fear How hearing parents argue about bills, experiencing scarcity, or watching a caregiver struggle financially may influence later beliefs about money and safety The connection between money, safety, shame, control, avoidance, spending, and relationships Why couples can have completely different emotional reactions to the exact same financial decision Why someone who grew up with scarcity may continue to feel financially unsafe even after their circumstances improve The ways financial stress may show up through fight, flight, freeze, avoidance, hyper-control, or emotional reactivity What Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) teaches about thoughts, emotions, psychological flexibility, and values Why fighting every uncomfortable thought may not be the most helpful strategy How ACT "defusion" can help create distance from statements such as "I am bad with money" The difference between saying "I am bad with money" and "I notice that I am having the thought that I am bad with money" Relational Frame Theory and the mental associations we build between words, experiences, emotions, and meaning Why the word money might unconsciously connect to ideas such as danger, freedom, shame, power, deprivation, security, generosity, or "not enough" Financial avoidance and why some people would rather ignore bills or avoid opening their banking app Consumer psychology, subscriptions, small recurring payments, and the temptation to think "it's only a few dollars a month" Social media, instant gratification, hustle culture, and the challenges younger generations face while living in an attention economy Why intentionality matters in both mental health and financial health How identifying your values can help guide financial decisions Why your spending may reveal something about what you value—or what you are trying to feel, avoid, prove, or protect How IFS-informed curiosity can help us ask what a spending, saving, controlling, or avoiding "part" may be trying to accomplish Why financial behavior does not have to be approached with shame Practical questions you can begin asking yourself about your own money story Diana Gets Financial Therapy in Real Time One of my favorite parts of this conversation happened when Oliver turned the questions back on me. He began with a simple word association: Money. My immediate response? Paper. That opened an unexpected conversation about learning to see money as a tool rather than something that determines safety, worth, identity, or success. I shared how my own childhood experiences shaped my relationship with money—watching my mother work multiple jobs, experiencing financial scarcity, and eventually realizing that somewhere along the way, my younger brain had connected money with not feeling safe. Oliver then walked me through a values-based exercise. I described the person I most want to be as: Generous. Kind. Loving. A teacher. A philanthropist. Eventually, those words became: "Helper of others." Then we explored how I want to relate to the people around me: Giving. Curious. Peaceful. Respectful. Encouraging. The word that emerged was: "Future." Oliver put the two together: "Helper of others' futures." Finally, he asked me to connect that value with a small act of self-compassion. My answer was simple: Take a deep breath. So when I am facing a decision—financial or otherwise—the practice becomes: Breathe. Remember "helper of others' futures." Then ask whether this decision moves me toward the person I want to become. That moment captures one of the biggest ideas in this entire episode: Our healthiest financial decisions may begin not only with asking, "Can I afford this?" but also, "Is this consistent with what matters to me and the person I want to become?" Questions to Ask Yourself About Your Relationship With Money Oliver offers a simple place to begin: What did I hear about money while I was growing up? How did my parents or caregivers talk about money? What happened emotionally when bills, debt, spending, or income were discussed? What financial experiences shaped me when I was young? What happened when I earned my first money? What do I believe about wealthy people? What do I believe about people who struggle financially? What does having money mean to me? What does losing money mean to me? What does spending money give me emotionally? What am I afraid might happen if I do not have enough? Where am I spending my money now—and what might that reveal about my values? Am I making financial choices intentionally, or am I reacting automatically? And perhaps the biggest question: Who do I want to become? Because without intentionally answering that question, it is easy to allow culture, advertising, fear, comparison, social media, family expectations, or old survival strategies to answer it for us. Faith & Money At the beginning of this conversation, I also challenge one of the most frequently repeated misquotations about money and Scripture. The Bible does not say that money itself is the root of all evil. 1 Timothy 6:10 warns about the love of money. That opens a much more meaningful question: When does money move from being a useful tool to something we expect to provide our identity, worth, security, status, or ultimate sense of control? That is a question worth slowing down long enough to consider. About Dr. Oliver Schnusenberg Oliver Schnusenberg, Ph.D., MSc, CFT™, CFP®, BFA™, is the Earle C. Traynham Professor of Finance at the University of North Florida, where he teaches finance and financial planning. His academic work includes behavioral finance, financial planning, psychology, neuroscience, and the psychological processes underlying financial behavior. Oliver earned his Ph.D. in Finance and later completed an MSc in Psychology and Neuroscience in Mental Health from King's College London. He is currently completing graduate training in Clinical Mental Health Counseling at the University of Florida. He is a Certified Financial Therapist™, Certified Financial Planner™, Behavioral Financial Advisor™, certified life coach, and founder of Equilibria Evolution, where his work focuses on intentional, values-based financial and personal decision-making. Important clarification: At the time of this recording, Oliver is not a licensed mental health counselor. He discusses his work in financial therapy and coaching while completing his clinical mental health counseling education. Connect With Dr. Oliver Schnusenberg Equilibria Evolution: https://www.equilibriaevolution.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/oschnuse Instagram: @oliverschnusenberg YouTube: @oschnuse Oliver's Podcast: Less Hustle, More Intention Available on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/less-hustle-more-intention/id1824876017 Resources Mentioned in This Episode Financial Therapy Association Learn more about the field of financial therapy, professional education, research, and financial therapy resources through the Financial Therapy Association. Think2Perform Values Exercise Oliver discusses using the Think2Perform Values Cards Exercise to help people identify their core values and examine whether their behaviors and decisions align with what matters most to them. Search: Think2Perform Values Exercise Setting Boundaries That Stick Juliane Taylor Shore, LMFT Full title: Setting Boundaries That Stick: How Neurobiology Can Help You Rewire Your Brain to Feel Safe, Connected, and Empowered Oliver referenced this book while demonstrating the values/self-compassion exercise during the episode. The Anxious Generation Jonathan Haidt A discussion of childhood, adolescence, smartphones, social media, and mental health that came up during our conversation about younger generations, attention, autonomy, and intentional living. Man's Search for Meaning Viktor E. Frankl Diana and Oliver discuss Viktor Frankl's work while exploring the importance of creating space between what happens to us and how we choose to respond. Making ACT Happen Gijs Jansen, PsyD Oliver references Gijs Jansen while discussing Acceptance and Commitment Therapy and Relational Frame Theory. Full title: Making ACT Happen: How to Use Acceptance and Commitment Therapy in Clinical Practice Profit First Mike Michalowicz Diana mentions how the Profit First system helped her conceptualize money and business finances in a way that finally made sense to her. Gabe Bult Diana references personal-finance and minimalism creator Gabe Bult during the discussion of consumer culture, recurring payments, spending, and younger generations. Key Terms From This Episode Financial anxiety • money anxiety • financial therapy • financial stress • money mindset • childhood money beliefs • scarcity mindset • financial trauma • money story • behavioral finance • financial psychology • money avoidance • emotional spending • money shame • couples and money • money and relationships • nervous system and money • fight flight freeze • financial wellness • confirmation bias • loss aversion • Acceptance and Commitment Therapy • ACT therapy • psychological flexibility • cognitive defusion • Relational Frame Theory • RFT • Internal Family Systems • IFS • values-based living • values-based spending • intentional living • personal finance psychology • money and mental health • childhood scarcity • financial behavior Search Questions Answered in This Episode Why do I feel anxious about money? What is financial therapy? Can childhood experiences affect the way I spend and save money? What is a scarcity mindset? Why am I afraid to spend money even when I can afford something? Why do I avoid checking my bank account? Why do couples fight about money? How does childhood poverty affect adults? Can money trigger fight, flight, or freeze responses? How do I change unhealthy money beliefs? How can ACT help with money anxiety? How can I stop emotional or impulsive spending? How do my values affect my financial decisions? How do I develop a healthier relationship with money? A Final Thought Oliver leaves us with a powerful idea: Money can function like an emotionally honest mirror. It can reflect our fears, our history, our hopes, what we learned to survive, and what we believe will finally make us feel safe. The goal is not to shame what we see in that mirror. The invitation is to become curious enough to understand it—and intentional enough to decide what we want to do next. Educational Disclaimer: This podcast is provided for educational and informational purposes only and is not psychotherapy, mental health treatment, financial planning, investment advice, tax advice, legal advice, or a substitute for services from an appropriately licensed or qualified professional. Individual circumstances vary. Please consult qualified mental health, financial, legal, tax, or medical professionals when appropriate. At the time of this recording, Dr. Oliver Schnusenberg identifies his work as financial therapy and ACT-informed coaching and is completing graduate education

What happens when a DNA test changes the story you believed about who you are? In this deeply personal and powerful episode of The Holistic Counselor Podcast, host Diana S. Rice, LMHC, CIMHP, sits down with Mecca Syrkett—mental health advocate, MPE mentor, certified grief recovery coach, and founder of Aya Grief Education & Coaching—for an honest conversation about NPE discoveries, MPE discoveries, misattributed parentage experiences, unexpected DNA results, genetic bewilderment, identity, grief, family secrets, belonging, heritage, and healing. Mecca shares her own story of discovering through DNA testing that the father who raised her was not her biological father, and how that revelation reshaped her understanding of family, ancestry, grief, and identity. Diana also reflects on her own recent MPE discovery and the emotional "glitch" that can happen when even a simple question like "Where are you from?" no longer feels simple. Together, Diana and Mecca explore why an NPE or MPE discovery is not "just information," but can feel like a life-altering grief experience. They discuss the shock of seeing unfamiliar close relatives in DNA results, the longing for genetic mirroring, the pain of unanswered questions, the role of family secrets, the grief of lost heritage, and why so many people feel alone after a DNA surprise. This conversation also highlights the importance of MPE-informed support, active listening, online community, grief education, nervous system awareness, faith, and learning how to build a new narrative when the old story no longer fits. If you or someone you love has discovered unexpected parentage through Ancestry, 23andMe, or another DNA test, this episode offers language, validation, compassion, and hope. TOPICS DISCUSSED: NPE and MPE discoveries Misattributed parentage experiences Unexpected DNA results and family secrets Genetic bewilderment and identity confusion DNA testing through Ancestry and 23andMe Grief after learning a parent is not your biological parent Late discovery adoptee experiences Disenfranchised grief and complex grief The emotional impact of "Where are you from?" Genetic mirroring and seeing yourself in biological relatives How loved ones can respond with compassion Why active listening matters after a DNA surprise Finding community and support after an NPE/MPE discovery Faith, identity, belonging, and healing when your story changes CONNECT WITH MECCA SYRKETT: Aya Grief Education & Coaching Website: https://www.ayagrief.com Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61586551186971 Email: [email protected] NPE/MPE SUPPORT GROUPS & COMMUNITY RESOURCES: NPE Only: After the Discovery https://www.facebook.com/groups/NPEOnlyAftertheDiscovery This NPE Life https://www.facebook.com/groups/thisnpelife This MPE Life https://www.facebook.com/groups/thismpelife NPE Network https://www.npenetwork.org Right to Know https://righttoknow.us MPE Counseling / Professional Directory https://www.mpecounseling.org Watershed DNA Resource List https://www.watersheddna.com/resources DNA Surprises Resource List https://dnasurprises.com/dna-surprise-resources/ DNAngels https://www.dnangels.org NPE STORIES & PODCAST RESOURCES: NPE Stories with Lily Wood https://npestories.com DNA Surprises Podcast https://dnasurprises.com Watershed DNA / DNA Clarity and Support https://www.watersheddna.com BOOKS & RECOMMENDED READING: NPE* A Story Guide for Unexpected DNA Discoveries by Leeanne R. Hay https://www.leeannerhay.com Inheritance: A Memoir of Genealogy, Paternity, and Love by Dani Shapiro https://danishapiro.com/books/inheritance/ The Lost Family: How DNA Testing Is Upending Who We Are by Libby Copeland https://libbycopeland.com/the-lost-family-2/ DNA Guide for Adoptees by Brianne Kirkpatrick https://www.watersheddna.com/books More DNA discovery books and resources https://www.watersheddna.com/resources CRISIS & SUPPORT RESOURCES: If this conversation brings up overwhelming grief, trauma, sexual violence, abuse, or thoughts of self-harm, please reach out for support now. 988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline Call or text 988 https://988lifeline.org RAINN National Sexual Assault Hotline https://rainn.org National Domestic Violence Hotline https://www.thehotline.org CONNECT WITH DIANA S. RICE: The Holistic Counselor Podcast https://www.throughthevalleytherapy.com Through the Valley Therapy https://www.throughthevalleytherapy.com Transformed Mind Consulting & Coaching https://www.transformedmindcc.com Listen to the podcast: https://pod.link/1732149496 Disclaimer: This podcast is for educational and informational purposes only and does not replace therapy, medical care, crisis care, or professional mental health treatment. If you are in immediate danger or experiencing a medical or mental health emergency, call 911 or go to your nearest emergency room.

What happens when a DNA test changes the story you have believed about yourself your entire life? In this deeply personal and professionally rich episode of The Holistic Counselor Podcast, Diana S. Rice, LMHC, CIMHP, sits down with Dr. Josephine Rabb, PsyD, LMFT, LPC, a therapist, researcher, professor, speaker, and pioneer in the field of Parental Identity Discovery™. Together, Diana and Dr. Rabb explore the emotional, relational, cultural, and clinical impact of unexpected DNA discoveries, including NPE, MPE, misattributed parentage, donor conception, late-discovery adoption, family secrets, genetic mirroring, identity trauma, ambiguous loss, and genetic bewilderment. Diana also shares part of her own recent discovery that, at 54 years old, she learned she is an NPE/MPE. This conversation is for anyone who has received unexpected DNA results, loves someone walking through this kind of discovery, or works clinically with people navigating identity, grief, trauma, family rupture, and belonging. In this episode, we talk about: What NPE and MPE mean, and why "misattributed parentage experience" is often a more inclusive term How a DNA test can disrupt identity, family history, culture, ethnicity, and belonging Why "the person who raised you is still your parent" can feel dismissive, even when it is said with good intentions Genetic bewilderment and the grief of not knowing where you come from Genetic mirroring and the relief of seeing yourself in biological relatives The impact of family secrets, rejection, silence, and delayed truth Why newly discovered relatives may need time to process the shock How boundaries matter on all sides of an unexpected DNA discovery Dr. Rabb's Parental Identity Discovery™ framework Why clinicians need to understand identity, grief, trauma, family systems, adoption research, and ambiguous loss How EMDR, CBT, attachment work, IFS-informed language, narrative work, and family therapy may support healing Why connection, community, and support groups can be essential after an NPE/MPE discovery Exact quotes from Dr. Rabb: "Dad is still your dad, the guy who raised you is still your dad. And that is true, in a lot of ways. And yet, it's one of the more dismissive comments made." "You have genetic mirroring at that moment. Genetic mirroring, and that's where that sigh of relief comes from, is I see where I belong now." Exact quotes from Diana: "Who are you if the story you've believed about yourself your entire life suddenly changes." "Instead of reacting in emotion, I want to respond in wisdom." Resources mentioned in this episode: Dr. Josephine Rabb's website https://www.jkrabb.com/ Parental Identity Discovery™ / Dr. Rabb's areas of expertise https://www.jkrabb.com/areas-of-expertise Dr. Rabb's professional development and Parental Identity Discovery™ training information https://www.jkrabb.com/professional-development Dr. Rabb's resources page https://www.jkrabb.com/resources-1 Sex, Lies & The Truth podcast https://www.sexliesandthetruth.com/ NPE Guide https://www.npeguide.com/ NPE Guide: Guide page https://www.npeguide.com/guide NPE Network https://www.npenetwork.org/ Netflix documentary: Our Father https://www.netflix.com/title/81227735 CDC: Adverse Childhood Experiences / ACEs https://www.cdc.gov/aces/about/index.html EMDR International Association / EMDRIA https://www.emdria.org/ Internal Family Systems Institute https://ifs-institute.com/ Closing reflection: An unexpected DNA discovery can shake more than a family tree. It can shake a person's sense of identity, belonging, culture, story, and safety. But as this episode reminds us, healing does not have to happen in isolation. There is language for this. There are clinicians learning how to help. There are support groups, resources, and people who understand. And for those walking through this tender and disorienting road: you are not strange, you are not alone, and your story still matters. Please remember: trust in the Lord, guard your heart, and renew your mind.