FRIED. The Burnout Podcast

FRIED Fam, Your company cares about mental health. There is a flyer in the break room, a pizza party in September, and an EAP number nobody calls. And people are still quietly drowning at their desks. This week I sit down with Jessi Beyer, MHP, a crisis mental health professional and former SWAT negotiator, to draw a hard line between crisis awareness (the flyer and the pizza party) and crisis readiness (actual skills that change what happens when a human being is struggling in front of you). Jessi has talked people off ledges for a living. Now she teaches workforces to handle the moment someone finally says "I can't do this anymore." If you are a leader who thinks this is a non-issue because nobody has died on your watch, this one is for you. If you are the high achiever hiding your burnout behind your work and holding it together nine to five while falling apart at home, this one is also for you. Burnout is not a people problem. It is a readiness problem, and readiness is a skill you can build in fifteen minutes. What we get into Why the skeptical executive thinks workplace mental health is a non-issue, and the case that changes their mind Crisis awareness versus crisis readiness (why the pizza party does nothing) The LIFE model, and why "just listen" is harder and more useful than it sounds Why Jessi is at war with EAPs, and the gap between someone struggling and someone actually calling for help What actually counts as a crisis (hint: it is not only suicide) Why your best people are the last ones to show they are burning out The de-escalation skills that keep YOU safe in a toxic workplace, straight from hostage negotiation What it does to your body to stay in a toxic environment Why 15 minutes is the real ask, and what it means if your company cannot find it Who decided you had to be the one to save the world Moments worth the replay "Crisis awareness is a flyer and a pizza party. It does not actually provide any skills that can impact the lives of the people who are struggling." — Jessi Beyer "I am in a war against EAPs. Keep the EAP. But that is the end of the sequence. It is not the beginning, and it is not the whole thing." — Jessi Beyer "Most people who burn out are high achievers, and they know how to hide behind their work. Work is the last place they show it." — Cait Donovan "You can use these skills to keep yourself safe and survive whatever situation you are in. And that includes toxic workplaces." — Jessi Beyer "If you cannot set aside fifteen minutes to have this conversation, that is a symptom of a much bigger problem." — Jessi Beyer "Who decided that you had to be the one to save the world?" — Jessi Beyer Mentioned in this episode The LIFE model (Jessi's crisis-response framework) Employee Assistance Programs (EAPs) and the readiness gap around them Jessi's free suicide-risk readiness diagnostic for teams of 100+ More FRIED on this Why Companies Are Afraid to Talk About Workplace Wellness (And What That Silence Is Costing Them) — #straightfromcait: https://redcircle.com/shows/e4c0db0a-98a4-47e6-a2b0-6a291469e1d6/episodes/178d7007-e654-46eb-8af7-9815228feb31 The Workplace is a Trauma Recycling Center — #straightfromcait (FRIED #15): https://redcircle.com/shows/e4c0db0a-98a4-47e6-a2b0-6a291469e1d6/episodes/d20e94d2-7f75-40ee-bb1c-ccc7efd26193 Zenica Chatman: How to Recover From Workplace Bullying that Leads to Burnout (FRIED #5): https://redcircle.com/shows/e4c0db0a-98a4-47e6-a2b0-6a291469e1d6/episodes/5c792a89-b22e-48a7-8d3e-56f6022ca88d Newton Cheng: I Burned Out in Corporate and Stayed, This Is How (FRIED #1): https://redcircle.com/shows/e4c0db0a-98a4-47e6-a2b0-6a291469e1d6/episodes/024e0985-6cdc-4b1d-80b4-28d853339dba About the guest Jessi Beyer, MHP, is a crisis mental health professional, suicide-prevention and de-escalation speaker, #1 bestselling author, and former SWAT negotiator. A TEDx speaker featured in more than 200 media outlets, she holds master's degrees in critical psychology and military psychology and leads Crisis Readiness Group, which trains workforces to actually respond when someone is struggling. Website: crisisreadinessgroup.com Instagram: @itsjessibeyer About me I'm Cait Donovan: keynote speaker, one of the top global burnout experts, and your host here at FRIED. The Burnout Podcast. My book, Mismatch: Why Good People Burn Out in Good Organizations, is out October 2026. Book me to speak: https://bit.ly/bookcait Speaking: caitdonovan.com/speaking Watch the 3-minute sizzle reel: https://bit.ly/caitdreel2025 XOXO, C #friedfam #endburnoutculture

Burnout does not require a toxic workplace. For years, the burnout conversation has had a tendency to point fingers in one of two directions. Organizations tell employees they need to become more resilient. Burnt-out employees point back at leadership and say the system needs to change. But what if both sides are only partially right? In this episode of FRIED. The Burnout Podcast, I’m exploring why good people can burn out inside good organizations, why individual responsibility is not the same thing as individual blame, and why fixing burnout requires us to stop looking for a villain and start looking for the mismatch. Even in an organization with supportive leadership, reasonable expectations, and good intentions, mismatches can happen. A leader might offer tons of autonomy because they’re trying not to micromanage, while an employee actually needs more support. Neither person is necessarily doing anything wrong. Their needs and approaches simply don't match. And those small mismatches are happening in workplaces all the time. In this episode, I cover: Why burnout doesn't require a bad or toxic workplace The false choice between blaming employees and blaming organizations Why “burnout isn't your fault” doesn't mean there's no individual work to do How perfectionism, hyper-independence, and other learned patterns can contribute to burnout Why even great leadership can't protect us from every internal burnout driver How good intentions on both sides can still create workplace mismatches The difference between a toxic workplace and a workplace that simply isn't a good match Why sustainable work doesn't require perfect alignment How organizations and individuals can move toward a “good enough” match together The question I want us to start asking Instead of: Whose fault is this? Try: Is this a match or a mismatch? And if there's a mismatch: What can each of us realistically change to move closer to a match? The goal isn't a workplace perfectly customized to every individual. And it isn't asking individuals to contort themselves to fit environments that don't work for them. It's finding enough alignment that people can feel safe, supported, and comfortable enough to make work sustainable. If you've experienced a workplace mismatch and found a way to address it, I'd love to hear your story. About the Host Cait Donovan is a globally recognized keynote speaker, one of the world’s leading burnout experts, and host of FRIED. The Burnout Podcast, a top 1% podcast with more than 1 million downloads. With a background in biobehavioral health and Chinese medicine, Cait takes a systems-based approach to burnout, helping organizations, leaders, and individuals understand burnout not as a personal failure, but as a mismatch between people and the environments in which they work. Cait is the author of The Bouncebackability Factor and the forthcoming Mismatch: Why Good People Burn Out in Good Organizations. Her work has been featured in Forbes, NPR, The New York Post, and other major media outlets. Bring Cait to your organization: Learn more about Cait’s keynotes and workplace burnout programs at CaitDonovan.com.

What happens when a leader's ego is running the show without them even realizing it? In this episode of FRIED. The Burnout Podcast, I'm joined by my longtime friend, leadership expert, and author Ewa Błaszczak to talk about her new book, The Leader and the Ego: The Path to Conscious Leadership. Ewa argues that we don't need to get rid of our egos. We need to become conscious of them, understand what they're trying to protect, and notice when they're making decisions for us. We talk about the connection between leadership ego and employee burnout, why self-awareness becomes increasingly important as leaders gain power, and how unconscious patterns can show up as competition, scarcity, control, rescuing, victimhood, and plenty of unnecessary workplace drama. And yes, Ewa gives us a remarkably simple place to start: notice your thoughts and ask who's listening. In other words, metacognition. The practice is simple. Doing it consistently is another story. In this episode, we cover: What ego actually means and why Ewa doesn't believe we should try to eliminate it How unconscious ego can affect leadership, team performance, and burnout Why thinking you're self-aware and actually being self-aware aren't necessarily the same thing Internal vs. external self-awareness How fear, scarcity, competition, comparison, and control can quietly drive leadership behavior Why managing your own ego is part of the responsibility of leadership How gaining power can make honest feedback harder to get Why leaders sometimes create problems by constantly stepping in to solve them How hyper-independence and other patterns can shape what irritates us about other people How to recognize when your own ego has entered the conversation Why Ewa's ultimate goal for workplaces is surprisingly simple: less drama One of my favorite ideas from this conversation is that self-awareness isn't about identifying everything that's wrong with you. It's about becoming aware enough of what's happening internally that you have more choices about what happens next. As Ewa explains, we aren't trying to destroy the ego. We're trying to notice when it's driving. Because an unconscious ego can spend an enormous amount of energy thinking, protecting, analyzing, preparing, fighting, accumulating, planning, and comparing. For leaders, that internal work doesn't stay internal. Your behavior affects the people around you. And when no one feels safe enough to tell you that you have metaphorical spinach in your teeth, an outside perspective can become especially valuable. The goal isn't an ego-free leader. It's a leader who can notice their ego, get curious about what it's doing, and make a more intentional choice. Quotes "Make the unconscious conscious, because otherwise your ego will literally kill you, your productivity, your teams, and it will make you waste your life." (5:48 | Ewa Błaszczak) "It turns out only 10% of us are conscious. It does not mean we have it all figured out, but we know what is going on." (7:58 | Ewa Błaszczak) "If you want to get rid of your ego, it means you want to die. You do not want to die. You want to get to know it, like a scared inner child." (11:00 | Ewa Błaszczak) "Ninety five percent of the things that ego is afraid of will never happen. So we lose our lives like that." (14:39 | Ewa Błaszczak) "I asked my husband, why am I even writing this book? He said, because unhealthy ego hurts people." (24:16 | Ewa Błaszczak) "The higher you get in the corporate ladder, the less the leaders are conscious, and the more the ego is playing the power game." (31:40 | Ewa Błaszczak) "Nobody is going to tell the leader they have spinach in their teeth. But somebody has to." (33:12 | Cait Donovan) Also mentioned in this episode Owen Fitzpatrick and his book Inner Propaganda, on belief leadership and the stories we tell ourselves. Belief Leadership Starts with Knowing Inner Propaganda with Owen Fitzpatrick (FRIED #357): https://redcircle.com/shows/e4c0db0a-98a4-47e6-a2b0-6a291469e1d6/episodes/c0af2f66-c0b1-4ca7-91df-33dc20627f75 Tasha Eurich, organizational psychologist, on internal versus external self-awareness Carl Jung, on the shadow Stephen Karpman, on the drama triangle (victim, persecutor, rescuer) Kristen Holmes, head researcher at WHOOP, on sleep and psychological safety Robin Hatcher, former soap opera writer turned communications expert ("I used to write the drama in, now I write the drama out") L. David Marquet, author of Turn the Ship Around!, who wrote the book's foreword Related FRIED episodes to binge next: The Leadership Skill Nobody Taught You (That Predicts Everything) (FRIED, Apr 2026): https://redcircle.com/shows/e4c0db0a-98a4-47e6-a2b0-6a291469e1d6/episodes/73db4267-603c-4161-8164-e315f30b26ef We're Expecting the Wrong Things From Leaders And It's Causing Leadership Burnout, a #straightfromcait episode (FRIED, May 2026): https://redcircle.com/shows/e4c0db0a-98a4-47e6-a2b0-6a291469e1d6/episodes/09a4ac57-ae4f-4a74-be47-d00a4a14e930 Mita Mallick: Could Your Boss Be the Real Reason You're Burnt Out? (FRIED, Sep 2025): https://redcircle.com/shows/e4c0db0a-98a4-47e6-a2b0-6a291469e1d6/episodes/b988ee19-3b8c-43c7-98a3-3b22646c5b10 About Ewa Błaszczak Ewa Błaszczak (https://www.ewablaszczak.com/en) is a leadership expert and author of The Leader and the Ego: The Path to Conscious Leadership. With more than 25 years of experience, she works with leaders and teams around the world to drive performance, lead transformation, and build cultures of responsibility. Her work explores the leader's ego as an often-overlooked barrier to effectiveness, combining neuroscience, psychology, and real-world business practice to help leaders deliver results without losing themselves or their people. Ewa's previous episode on FRIED about Toxic Communication: https://redcircle.com/shows/e4c0db0a-98a4-47e6-a2b0-6a291469e1d6/ep/66b2189c-5b9b-4f5a-a1e3-c9cd0d35c874 About the Host Cait Donovan is a globally recognized keynote speaker, one of the world's leading burnout experts, and host of FRIED. The Burnout Podcast, a top 1% podcast with more than 1 million downloads. With a background in biobehavioral health and Chinese medicine, Cait takes a systems-based approach to burnout, helping organizations, leaders, and individuals understand burnout not as a personal failure, but as a mismatch between people and the environments in which they work. Cait is the author of The Bouncebackability Factor and the forthcoming Mismatch: Why Good People Burn Out in Good Organizations. Her work has been featured in Forbes, NPR, The New York Post, and other major media outlets. Bring Cait to your organization: Learn more about Cait's keynotes and workplace burnout programs at https://caitdonovan.com/

Employee engagement surveys give us a lot of data. But what does that data actually tell us? In this first Survey Says episode, I’m looking at two questions from the 2024 U.S. Office of Personnel Management Federal Employee Viewpoint Survey through the burnout and mismatch lens. When only 48% of employees respond positively to whether management involves them in decisions that affect their work, it’s tempting to conclude that employees need more autonomy. But another question in the same survey complicates that assumption. The bigger lesson? A survey result is a signal, not a diagnosis. In this episode, I explore why the same survey score can reflect very different employee experiences, why more autonomy and involvement aren't automatically better, and what questions we can ask to understand what's actually happening underneath the numbers. In this episode, I cover: Why employee engagement survey results are a starting point, not a diagnosis The difference between employee involvement and satisfaction with that involvement Why a low autonomy score doesn't automatically mean employees need more autonomy How different workplace conditions can produce the same survey result The mismatch between where decision-making authority lives and where knowledge about the work lives Why the right amount of autonomy depends on the person and the work Questions we can ask to uncover what's happening underneath an engagement survey score Why getting curious is more useful than jumping straight from data to solutions Questions I’d ask next If employees report low involvement in decisions that affect their work, I want more information before deciding what needs to change. Which decisions do employees actually want more involvement in? Which recent decisions have positively or negatively affected their ability to do their jobs? What decisions are being made without information from the people closest to the work? When employees give input, do they know what happens to it? What would employees happily never be consulted about again? Employee engagement surveys aren't the end of the exploration. They're the beginning of it. The question isn't simply, “How do we give people more autonomy?” It’s: Do people have the appropriate amount of influence over the decisions that affect their ability to do their work? About the Host Cait Donovan is a globally recognized keynote speaker, one of the world’s leading burnout experts, and host of FRIED. The Burnout Podcast, a top 1% podcast with more than 1 million downloads. With a background in biobehavioral health and Chinese medicine, Cait takes a systems-based approach to burnout, helping organizations, leaders, and individuals understand burnout not as a personal failure, but as a mismatch between people and the environments in which they work. Cait is the author of The Bouncebackability Factor and the forthcoming Mismatch: Why Good People Burn Out in Good Organizations. Her work has been featured in Forbes, NPR, The New York Post, and other major media outlets. Bring Cait to your organization: Learn more about Cait’s keynotes and workplace burnout programs at https://caitdonovan.com

I worked with a CEO who was burning out, but here's what made the situation interesting: they were really good at their job. They had a supportive board. They had a supportive staff. The rest of the organization wasn't burning out. So what the hell was going on? When we started looking for the mismatch, one word kept coming up: urgency. This CEO was moving faster than everyone around them. They were answering emails before the person responsible for them had a chance to respond. They were going to meetings they didn't need to be in. They'd set a deadline for Friday, finish their part by Wednesday, and then get frustrated that everyone else wasn't moving at the same pace. The CEO thought they were helping. Their staff experienced it differently. In this #straightfromcait episode of FRIED: The Burnout Podcast, I'm breaking down how we identified this pace mismatch, what the CEO's urgency was communicating to the rest of the team, and what had to happen to change it. I also talk about why "slow down" can mean very different things depending on the mismatch you're actually trying to solve. This is also a little preview of the idea at the center of my upcoming book, Mismatch: Why Good People Burn Out in Good Organizations. Sometimes good people burn out in organizations that are mostly doing things right. The question isn't always, "What's broken here?" Sometimes the better question is: Where's the mismatch? Key Topics Covered A real example of a CEO burning out inside a healthy, supportive organization The behaviors that helped us identify the mismatch: answering other people's emails, going to meetings unnecessarily, and racing ahead of their own deadlines How one leader's internal sense of urgency created a pace mismatch with the rest of the organization Why doing things for your staff isn't necessarily helpful, especially when it starts communicating that you don't trust them The difference between the major slowdown that can be necessary during burnout recovery and dialing your pace down a couple of notches Why naming the mismatch made it much easier to figure out what needed to change What the CEO had to do to understand the fear underneath their urgency Why fixing a mismatch requires participation from both the person and the organization A first look at my upcoming book, Mismatch: Why Good People Burn Out in Good Organizations About Your Host Cait Donovan is a keynote speaker, globally recognized burnout expert, and host of FRIED: The Burnout Podcast, a top 1% show with over one million downloads. She's the author of The Bouncebackability Factor and is currently writing her second book, Mismatch: Why Good People Burn Out in Good Organizations, releasing October 2026. With more than 3,700 five-star keynote reviews and a 99% approval rating, Cait helps leaders and organizations fix burnout without blame, using science, humor, and a refusal to settle for wellness-seminar band-aids. Book Cait to Speak: https://www.caitdonovan.com/ Connect with Cait LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/caitdonovanspeaks Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/caitdonovanspeaks