FRIED. The Burnout Podcast

“I want you to give yourself permission to live in this rule of thirds,” says host Cait Donovan, borrowing a concept that Olympic runner Alexi Pappas recently shared online. Alexi's coach told her that anything you're doing right will feel a combination of good, bad and just neutral. Cait explains how this applies to burnout recovery, and how to incorporate it into your own life.

She also discusses fourth grade teacher Ryan Brazil's viral clip which explains that we are not obligated to blindly follow our first and, perhaps, most impulsive thoughts. Instead, we have the power to adhere to or act upon any one of the many successive thoughts that align more with who we want to be.

Cait shares a story from her own life where she chose to place emphasis on her second thought of compassion over her first thought of judgement.

Quotes

• “If you are adhering to those thirds, it means you’re on the right path. You’re doing the right things. You’re pushing yourself hard enough but you’re not pushing yourself too hard. You are enjoying the good moments, you are paying attention to the things that aren’t great so you can fix them. You’re sort of doing all the right things. This is so true in burnout recovery.” (2:13 | Caitlin Donovan)
• “The fact of the matter is, your sleep is going to be bad, something external is going to happen, you’re going to have to prep for a conversation or an action item. You’re going to be disappointed in yourself for not sticking to a food regiment, or you’re going to—whatever. There are a million reasons to be in that space, but we don’t want you to be in that space for four days a week. We don’t want you to be in that space for seven days at a time, unless the next week is neutral and the week after that is great.” (4:58 | Caitlin Donovan)
• “I do remember having that second thought and thinking, ‘I would rather choose this way to think about myself and other people because I think it’s healthier and I think it’s safer.’ That doesn’t mean that when somebody’s really doing something terrible, you should excuse it and try to interpret it differently so you can explain it away.” (9:31 | Caitlin Donovan)
• “You get to decide which thought you stop on because the thought you stop on is probably the thought that you’re going to repeat to yourself.”  (11:12 | Caitlin Donovan)

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“Part of the empowerment is recognizing that the things that you’re weak in are actually just the flip side of your strengths,” explains Sarah Yovovich, teacher writer and body worker, who joins FRIED to discuss the kind of burnout which results from emotional abuse. The same emotional intuition that kept her empathizing with her abuser makes her a profound healer, deeply tuned into her clients’ emotional, physical and energetic layers through Thai massage--a meditation on loving kindness. Today, she speaks to Sarah Vosen about the five elements of Chinese medicine, how they changed her life and helped her heal from burnout.

They also make her feel more connected to all elements of the world around her, a concept with which Sarah Jovovich, in turn, empowers her clients. She discusses the importance of community supporting each other and working in tandem. She also explains how she learned to set boundaries, for others’ benefit as much as her own.

Join the two friends in a discussion about healing and empowerment, the pitfalls of being a “terminal optimist” and why abuse is like an expressway.

Quotes

• “The way my sister put it was that when you live by an expressway you get used to the noise and the pollution and you don’t realize how much it’s wearing you down until you step away from it. And the stepping away from it was really difficult in this case because the expressway was my co-parent and my roommate in a very expensive city.” (10:22 | Sarah Yovovich)
• “When you’re in an abusive relationship, your nervous system is constantly being attacked. You’re in fight, flight, freeze or fawn all the time. If you’re living with somebody who’s being abusive of you, you never relax, and so your body starts to wear out from that.” (12:28 | Sarah Yovovich)
• “It allows me to recognize just how much I am a part of everything that happens all around me—of the seasons, of the planet, of the flow of energies in the universe, and to create stories around that that help me make sense of my life and my experiences. It’s also been really empowering in my healing work as a way to help other people make sense of what they’re feeling in their bodies and not feel like they’re at the whim of some tyrant body that’s misbehaving, but start to put together authority… to see how all these things are connected and work with them instead of against them.” (27:25 | Sarah Yovovich)
• “That’s actually part of the empowerment is recognizing that the things that you’re weak in are not something to beat yourself up about. It’s actually just the flip side of your strength and that there are four other kinds of elements who have the strengths that you don’t have that are probably part of your community and you can support each other. It just proves to me we’re meant to work together.” (39:17 | Sarah Yovovich and Sarah Vosen)

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“I just didn’t feel like I had the permission to bring that part of myself into the workplace and say, ‘Hey, I want to start making some shifts,’”says Roslyn McLarty, of her time as co-founder of the GIST, a women-run sports media brand, making sports more inclusive. As the company grew, so did the responsibilities and overwhelm, and she found herself growing away from the company. Since completing burnout recovery coaching with Cait through Cait’s Wayfinder program, Roslyn has learned that when you act in integrity with what your mind, body and soul want to do, not only do you deliver the most impact, you have more to offer the company, and as a founder, set the example for those around you. On today’s episode of FRIED, she shares how her journey through burnout has informed the founding of her latest venture Within, a personal development platform for purpose-driven leaders. 

A large part of Roslyn’s burnout recovery included learning to be present in her body—rather than just living inside of her own head—and get in better touch with her intuition. She learned to get to the root of her people-pleasing tendencies, to release her resentments and frustration. 

Roslyn’s story proves what a difference a year can truly make. Join today’s discussion to hear the advice she has for founders based on what she’s learned throughout her own journey. 

Quotes

• “I think awareness is the first step. I think the harder thing, for me, is even just believing that you are deserving of doing work that you enjoy and that maybe you have something to bring to the table other than what you thought.” (12:35 | Roslyn McLarty)
• “Those parts of me weren’t being fully utilized at the company, and I think they could have been really valuable but I just didn’t feel like I had the permission to bring that part of myself into the workplace and say, ‘Hey, I want to start making some shifts toward these energy-giving areas for me, so that I can stay in the company sustainably, so that I can have something that’s filling my cup so that I can do this and some of the other things that I inevitably need to do that maybe aren’t the most energy-giving but can we at least figure something out.’” (13:10 | Roslyn McLarty) 
• “Before going through all this I was someone who operated fully from the shoulders up, in my head. I wasn’t connected to my body’s intuition. I wasn’t hearing the signs that I was burning out or that things weren’t right, that something wasn’t integrity for me, in my life.’” (19:43 | Roslyn McLarty)
• “When you’re someone who’s been holding it all in and putting everybody first… you don’t know another way of being, whether it’s how you cope or how you were taught. So, to realize there’s a different way and you can let it all out is really empowering.” (24:50 | Roslyn McLarty)
• “I think that’s the thing that gets in the way: people just believe if I’m not working hard, I’m not going to be successful or I’m not creating value, and actually, if you’re working too hard, you’re not of service to your company. So, trying to shift to this idea that you should be working in a scope that works for you and lights you up.” (36:14 | Roslyn McLarty)

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“Cool, this is an emotion, but what is it telling me? What is the information?” asks Nicole Maitland, host of the podcast “Yarns for the Soul” and today’s guest on this episode of FRIED hosted by Sarah Vosen. The same high level of sensitivity that made Nicole an effective human rights lawyer in her native New Zealand made her vicariously vulnerable to her clients’ trauma, and her people-pleasing tendencies drove her to give her best to those clients even as her body was screaming for her to stop. Today, Nicole explains how she is learning to give herself the time, space and permission to feel her feelings without guilt or judgment, and what’s more, to learn to determine the message and information her emotions are trying to deliver. 

She compares emotions to waves, and the messages the emotions contain, to boats. When we let the waves wash over us and pay attention to the boats, we can receive the message that ultimately helps us bring ourselves more into what Sarah calls “soul alignment”— the lack of which is what leads to burnout in the first place. Nicole also talks about listening to the messages your body is trying to tell you, either through the symptoms of burnout, or in the subtle ways your gut and heart are trying to lead you in the right direction. 

Currently, Nicole is living the life of a “slow nomad,” and in turn is learning to let her soul be a “free and easy wanderer.” Learn more about her journey, how working with a naturopath changed her perspective and what she learned about life from growing up on her family’s farm. 

Quotes

• “As I look back now, that was kind of the last domino to fall. I can see that I was already chronically stressed probably from when I first started as a lawyer, even maybe before, when I was studying at university. And then I kind of just kept pushing because I didn’t know what else to do.” (6:13 | Nicole Maitland)
• “Riding those waves, you can see if there’s a boat that’s coming along and so, the wave itself is a certain emotion—it could be anger, sadness or whatever it is—but if you detach from the wave and look at the boat, which is a message…What is it trying to tell me?” (18:54| Nicole Maitland)
• “I know some people aren’t label-oriented, they don’t need a diagnosis but I think, for me, that’s where I’ve struggled because I find those labels helpful… now having the words of ‘highly sensitive person,’ I can use that as a lens to reflect back on everything, particularly my work as a lawyer and thinking, ‘Oh, that’s why I was different. That’s why I functioned differently,’ kind of bringing kindness to previous versions of myself.” (31:20 | Nicole Maitland) 
• “Physically, it can come from different places. It’s the heart, or the gut, possibly. The heart is, ‘What am I really feeling? What feels aligned?’ The gut is more the intuition, those things that you maybe can’t explain, but a little message or a tap on the shoulder, ‘I don’t know why, but let’s follow that.’  (44:18 | Nicole Maitland)

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“What’s more important: being happy for having some stupid business card?” Asks Bryan Huhn, who joins FRIED today to discuss the relationship between financial stress and burnout, particularly when we allow the money we’re making—and the money we think we can’t live without—to convince us we need to remain in jobs that are making us miserable even to the point of illness. Bryan spent years valuing what people thought of him more than his own genuine passions and in an effort to people-please, pursued a career in finance rather than his dream of becoming a baseball coach. This led to a toxic cycle where his self-worth was tied to a job he had no passion for and therefore didn’t excel at, the stress of which, he believes, contributed to a cancer diagnosis in 2015. 

With what he’s learned, he wants to help others make the most of their money so that they can create the best lives for themselves, and don’t have to spend another minute in jobs that they hate. As he explains to host Cait Donovan, this requires being brutally honest with yourself about where your money is going, what that says about what you value, and how you can start financially planning so that you can buy your freedom without wasting any more of that resource that is perhaps more valuable than money: your time. 

This requires getting real with yourself, while at the same time refraining from judging yourself or comparing yourself to anyone else. Join today’s episode of FRIED to learn how your approach to financial planning will help you start to live your best life. 

Quotes

• “That’s one thing I would say: Don’t ever compare. If there’s something you’ve been through, even if it seems really minor, it has a major impact on your life and the way your brain works. So, having that self-compassion, I think, is really important.” (4:43 | Bryan Huhn)
• “Money is imaginary. It literally is not real. We, as humans, just decided, ‘Hey, this thing, this piece of paper, this U.S. dollar is worth something and we all agree that it is, and that’s how we’re going to interact with one another and get the things we want. It could just as easily be Bitcoin. It’s not real, so why should your goal be to maximize how much of it you accumulate? No, the purpose of it is to live the best freaking life that you can possibly live.” (20:33 | Bryan Huhn) 
• “OK, where’s my money going? So, what am I valuing? Because if you really want to know what someone cares about, look at their bank statement and their calendar. The time and the money. It’s a really good way to measure that. So, it almost forces you to do that deep work that so many people resist.” (27:35 | Bryan Huhn)
• “There’s no judgment there. It’s just being honest with yourself and I think a lot of times, especially in my industry, they make people feel really judged. It’s kind of cliche to hear a financial planner say, ‘Don’t spend six bucks on your Starbucks coffee every morning. Shut up. Don’t tell people what they should value, but help them figure it out and help them be brutally honest with themselves.” (30:13 | Bryan Huhn)

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