Business of Drinks

What happens when you rebuild French wine from scratch — without appellations, without traditional grapes, and without the assumption that younger consumers care about either?In this episode, we sit down with Antonin Bonnet, co-founder of Pierre & Antonin, a fast-growing French wine brand scaling a very specific idea: Natural wine at a true mass-premium price point.The numbers and positioning are what make this story compelling. Pierre & Antonin produced ~350,000 bottles last year and is targeting ~400,000 this year, expanding across 20+ export markets. But the real unlock is how they got there — by rethinking everything from grape selection to packaging to brand storytelling.At the core is a contrarian bet: Hybrid “resistant” grape varieties. Long dismissed by the traditional wine industry, these grapes dramatically reduce vineyard inputs — less spraying, lower labor, lower cost — enabling the brand to hit a $15–$20 price point while maintaining margins.That economic model is paired with a sharp read on the consumer. Their average drinker is 26–27 years old — a cohort that prioritizes taste, price, sustainability, and story over varietal pedigree or appellation.And critically, the business is built around velocity, not tradition:Product-market fit: Pet Nat was the breakout SKU, driving ~60% of volume globallyRetail unlock: Landing Trader Joe’s doubled revenue and validated U.S. national demandGo-to-market: Instagram collaborations outperform paid ads for reaching urban Gen Z consumersBrand strategy: Simplified labels and back-label education reduce friction at shelfThere’s also a deeper industry question running through this conversation: Is wine overbuilt for the next generation?While the trade debates appellations and varietal purity, Pierre & Antonin is building for accessibility — in price, in messaging, and in experience. The result is a brand that’s growing by aligning sustainability with economics, not just storytelling.For drinks founders, this episode is a case study in identifying white space, challenging category assumptions, and designing a business model that actually works at scale.For the latest updates, follow us:Business of Drinks:YouTubeLinkedInInstagram @bizofdrinksErica Duecy, co-host: Erica Duecy is founder and co-host of Business of Drinks and one of the drinks industry’s most accomplished digital and content strategists. She runs the consultancy and advisory arm of Business of Drinks and has built publishing and marketing programs for Drizly, VinePair, SevenFifty, and other hospitality and drinks tech companies.LinkedInInstagram @ericaduecyScott Rosenbaum, co-host: Scott Rosenbaum is co-host of Business of Drinks and a veteran strategist and analyst with deep experience building drinks portfolios. Most recently, he was the Portfolio Development Director at Distill Ventures. Prior to that, he was the Vice President of T. Edward Wines & Spirits, a New York-based importer and distributor.LinkedInCaroline Lamb, contributor: Caroline is a producer and on-air contributor at Business of Drinks and a key account sales and marketing specialist at AHD Vintners, a Michigan-based importer and distributor.LinkedInInstagram @borkalineIf you enjoyed today’s conversation, follow Business of Drinks wherever you’re listening, and don’t forget to rate and review us. Your support helps us reach new listeners passionate about the drinks industry. Thank you!

What does it actually take to raise angel capital in today’s drinks market?In this episode, we sit down with Katie Dunn, Principal at Masthead Strategies and an active angel investor across consumer brands, to unpack how early-stage investors are really evaluating beverage companies right now — and where founders are getting it wrong.Today’s funding climate is no doubt challenging: Capital is tighter, the category is more crowded, and raising money requires far more than a compelling story. Katie shares a clear look at what angels expect — starting with returns. TL;DR - This isn’t passive money. Angel investors are underwriting for 5–10x outcomes, which means founders need a credible path to scale, strong margins, and a clear view toward exit. Katie breaks down why most early-stage drinks brands should be raising $250K–$500K to fund 12 months of runway — and tying every dollar to revenue-driving activities like inventory, sales, and market expansion. Overpaying yourself, cleaning up old debt, or raising more than you need? Those are immediate red flags.We also get into the structural mistakes that kill deals, like messy cap tables, too many small investors, and stacked SAFEs at different valuation caps. These are common in beverage — and often make brands uninvestable before they even reach scale.At the early stage, though, it’s less about the liquid and more about the founder. Katie explains why she prioritizes customer obsession, category expertise, and coachability — and how she tests for it. Founders who don’t deeply understand their competition, their numbers, or their path to margin expansion rarely make it through diligence.There’s also an important message on product-market fit: Prove it in the market, not the deck. The brands that win are iterating quickly, listening to customers, and resisting the urge to scale into large retail before they’re operationally ready.If you’re raising capital — or planning to — this episode is a tactical look at how investors actually think, what they’re looking for, and how to position your brand to win.For the latest updates, follow us:Business of Drinks:YouTubeLinkedInInstagram @bizofdrinksErica Duecy, co-host: Erica Duecy is founder and co-host of Business of Drinks and one of the drinks industry’s most accomplished digital and content strategists. She runs the consultancy and advisory arm of Business of Drinks and has built publishing and marketing programs for Drizly, VinePair, SevenFifty, and other hospitality and drinks tech companies.LinkedInInstagram @ericaduecyScott Rosenbaum, co-host: Scott Rosenbaum is co-host of Business of Drinks and a veteran strategist and analyst with deep experience building drinks portfolios. Most recently, he was the Portfolio Development Director at Distill Ventures. Prior to that, he was the Vice President of T. Edward Wines & Spirits, a New York-based importer and distributor.LinkedInCaroline Lamb, contributor: Caroline is a producer and on-air contributor at Business of Drinks and a key account sales and marketing specialist at AHD Vintners, a Michigan-based importer and distributor.LinkedInInstagram @borkalineIf you enjoyed today’s conversation, follow Business of Drinks wherever you’re listening, and don’t forget to rate and review us. Your support helps us reach new listeners passionate about the drinks industry. Thank you!

What happens when a small experimental wine project turns into one of the most recognizable brands in the grocery store?In this episode of Business of Drinks, we sit down with John Anthony Truchard, Founder and CEO of John Anthony Wine & Spirits, the company behind Butter Wines.What began as a 1,000-case experiment in 2009 has grown into a brand approaching 800,000 cases annually, with Butter itself scaling to more than $85 million in revenue. At one point, the brand controlled roughly 18% of the $15–$20 Chardonnay segment in the U.S. — an extraordinary share in a crowded category.Even more unusual: The brand achieved that scale without outside investment. Instead of venture capital, Truchard relied on bank financing, disciplined inventory management, and one “north star” signal — strong consumer pull.As he explains in this episode, aggressively scaling Butter wasn’t the riskiest decision he made. It was the least risky because the wine kept selling out in the markets where it launched.We unpack how Butter found its market seam by delivering a rich, barrel-style Chardonnay at a price point between mass brands like Kendall-Jackson and premium players like Rombauer. Truchard also explains how the company engineered a premium flavor profile at scale, and how he started with small, scrappy distributors before transitioning to national distribution with Southern Glazer’s and RNDC.Along the way, he shares candid lessons about growth — including the risks of locking in long-term grape contracts during boom years and how those decisions create difficult adjustments when the market softens.Finally, we discuss the company’s structured approach to innovation. Instead of chasing trends, the team follows a disciplined process — evaluation, innovation, execution, iteration — and then decides whether to accelerate a product or retire it.That framework has already produced Butter Light, now one of the fastest-growing light Chardonnays, and Butter Zero, which launched with 18,000 points of distribution before its first release.For founders and operators, this episode is a masterclass in scaling a drinks brand with focus, discipline, and the confidence to double down when the market says yes.For the latest updates, follow us:Business of Drinks website (sign up for our newsletter!)Business of Drinks YouTubeBusiness of Drinks LinkedInInstagram @bizofdrinksErica Duecy, co-host: Erica Duecy is founder and co-host of Business of Drinks and one of the drinks industry’s most accomplished digital and content strategists. She runs the consultancy and advisory arm of Business of Drinks and has built publishing and marketing programs for Drizly, VinePair, SevenFifty, and other hospitality and drinks tech companies.Erica Duecy LinkedInInstagram @ericaduecyScott Rosenbaum, co-host: Scott Rosenbaum is co-host of Business of Drinks and a veteran strategist and analyst with deep experience building drinks portfolios. Most recently, he was the Portfolio Development Director at Distill Ventures. Prior to that, he was the Vice President of T. Edward Wines & Spirits, a New York-based importer and distributor.Scott Rosenbaum LinkedInCaroline Lamb, contributor: Caroline is a producer and on-air contributor at Business of Drinks and a key account sales and marketing specialist at AHD Vintners, a Michigan-based importer and distributor.Caroline Lamb LinkedInInstagram @borkalineIf you enjoyed today’s conversation, follow Business of Drinks wherever you’re listening, and don’t forget to rate and review us. Your support helps us reach new listeners passionate about the drinks industry. Thank you!

How do large hospitality groups decide which drinks brands make it onto their menus — and which ones don’t?In this episode of Business of Drinks, we sit down with Miranda Breedlove, Beverage Director for The Lifestyle Group at Hyatt, to unpack how beverage decisions actually get made inside one of the world’s largest hospitality companies.Miranda oversees beverage strategy across 70+ lifestyle properties and roughly 75 venues spanning brands like Thompson Hotels, Andaz, Dream Hotels, and The Standard. Unlike many hotel groups, Hyatt’s lifestyle division doesn’t replicate bar concepts. Each property has its own identity and sense of place, which means beverage programs must balance national supplier partnerships with local creativity.For drinks founders, distributors, and operators, the conversation offers a rare look at how hospitality groups evaluate brands — and what it takes to scale inside those systems.• Distribution is the first gatekeeperBefore a brand can even be considered for multi-property hospitality programs, it must demonstrate reliable distribution, consistent pricing, and strong distributor coverage across markets.• Scaling usually starts with a pilotEven promising brands rarely roll out everywhere immediately. Miranda often tests new products in three to five properties across different markets before expanding further.• Local support drives successBrands gain traction when reps educate bar teams, build relationships, and actively support the account. Teams respond to people and stories — not just bottles.• National structure, local identityHyatt provides a national framework, but each property adapts its beverage program to reflect the local market and guest profile.• Experiential activations winGuest bartender takeovers, masterclasses, and other immersive experiences keep teams and guests engaged far more effectively than routine promotions.• Data is an underused advantageTools like menu matrix analysis and strong P&L literacy help operators identify which drinks truly drive profitability.If you want to understand how hospitality groups actually make beverage decisions, this episode offers a rare look behind the curtain.For the latest updates, follow us:Business of Drinks website (sign up for our newsletter!)Business of Drinks YouTubeBusiness of Drinks LinkedInInstagram @bizofdrinksErica Duecy, co-host: Erica Duecy is founder and co-host of Business of Drinks and one of the drinks industry’s most accomplished digital and content strategists. She runs the consultancy and advisory arm of Business of Drinks and has built publishing and marketing programs for Drizly, VinePair, SevenFifty, and other hospitality and drinks tech companies.Erica Duecy LinkedInInstagram @ericaduecyScott Rosenbaum, co-host: Scott Rosenbaum is co-host of Business of Drinks and a veteran strategist and analyst with deep experience building drinks portfolios. Most recently, he was the Portfolio Development Director at Distill Ventures. Prior to that, he was the Vice President of T. Edward Wines & Spirits, a New York-based importer and distributor.Scott Rosenbaum LinkedInCaroline Lamb, contributor: Caroline is a producer and on-air contributor at Business of Drinks and a key account sales and marketing specialist at AHD Vintners, a Michigan-based importer and distributor.Caroline Lamb LinkedInInstagram @borkalineIf you enjoyed today’s conversation, follow Business of Drinks wherever you’re listening, and don’t forget to rate and review us. Your support helps us reach new listeners passionate about the drinks industry. Thank you!

In an era of low-and-no headlines, one contrarian wine brand leaned into flavor high ABV. It scaled to 2.5 million cases in just three years.In this episode of Business of Drinks, Erica sits down with Kaitlin Silva, Director of National Accounts at Tri-Vin Wines & Spirits, to unpack how XXL went from roughly 85,000 cases in its first year (2023) to 2.5 million cases in 2025, while much of wine was flat or declining.The story isn’t just about virality; it’s about execution.XXL didn’t start by winning Walmart. It was built in independent markets first - including roughly 100,000 cases in Maryland and about 300,000 cases in New York in year two. Consumers were actively looking for the brand. That pull-through gave Tri-Vin leverage when approaching national chains. Kaitlin offers a rare inside look at how national accounts actually function, with two reset windows a year and six-to-eight-month feedback loops. It’s a “hurry up and wait” cycle where you’re pitching into fall’s reset before knowing your spring results. We also discuss how data is the real language of chains. Kaitlin talks about living in SKU rankings, flavor segmentation, and state-by-state performance slicing. As she says, you may not be top 100 overall - but you might be top 5 within a specific subsegment in that region, and that’s the conversation that opens doors.Perhaps most interesting for trade listeners: Velocity is currently winning over pure margin optimization. Many chains are focused on moving units and driving incremental shoppers in a value-conscious environment. XXL’s ability to turn - and to bring new consumers into the wine aisle - has been central to its expansion.If you’re building a beverage brand, pitching national accounts, or trying to understand where wine’s real growth pockets are emerging, this episode offers perspective on how independents create momentum, how data earns scale, and why sometimes the biggest opportunity comes from zigging while everyone else zags.For the latest updates, follow us:Business of Drinks:YouTubeLinkedInInstagram @bizofdrinksErica Duecy, co-host: Erica Duecy is founder and co-host of Business of Drinks and one of the drinks industry’s most accomplished digital and content strategists. She runs the consultancy and advisory arm of Business of Drinks and has built publishing and marketing programs for Drizly, VinePair, SevenFifty, and other hospitality and drinks tech companies.LinkedInInstagram @ericaduecyScott Rosenbaum, co-host: Scott Rosenbaum is co-host of Business of Drinks and a veteran strategist and analyst with deep experience building drinks portfolios. Most recently, he was the Portfolio Development Director at Distill Ventures. Prior to that, he was the Vice President of T. Edward Wines & Spirits, a New York-based importer and distributor.LinkedInCaroline Lamb, contributor: Caroline is a producer and on-air contributor at Business of Drinks and a key account sales and marketing specialist at AHD Vintners, a Michigan-based importer and distributor.LinkedInInstagram @borkalineIf you enjoyed today’s conversation, follow Business of Drinks wherever you’re listening, and don’t forget to rate and review us. Your support helps us reach new listeners passionate about the drinks industry. Thank you!